The TRials and TRibulations of my TR4

[dykins]

Should have gone in the TR to the Cholmondoley Pageant of Power today - a sort of Festival of Speed for us in the North West.

 

The TR started straight away with no problems, and I left it to warm up on the drive for a moment whilst I went inside to tell my son to hurry up.

 

Literally no more than a minute later I came out and heared it spluttering and running unevenly. I thought I'd give it some revs, it spluttered some more, then stopped.

 

Since then It will start OK then will run for a few seconds, then splutters to a stop. If I pull the choke out, it will run for a bit longer, but not much.

 

Called out the breakdown service via Towergate, and a recovery lorry turned up with the opening comment from the driver "can't remember the last time I had to attend a car without electronic ignition"

 

Anyway, he checked that there was a spark at each plug (there was, albeit weak ones)

 

He checked the distibutor car, plug leads and rotor arm for any apparent damage.

 

He then checked that the fuel filter wasn't blocked and undid the fuel pipe going the the front carb to check that fuel was getting through.

 

He then announced that he thought my car had a misfire, but he was unfamiliar with these engines, I would need specialist advice.

 

Interestingly the car was serviced by TR Bitz two months ago and had (amongst other things) points, rotor arm, spark plugs and condensor replaced. I haven't touched anything since.

 

Can anyone with more mechanical prowess than me (which is probably everyone!) suggest any possible causes/solutions?

 

Regards

 

Peter

 

PS - still got to Cholmondoley in my normal car - had a great day - but it's just not the same without a TR.

Edited July 17, 2010 by dykins

[alan atkinson]

Bad gas?

Had the same symptoms on my 8.

Checked everything ~but~ the gas.

Draining the tank and refilling was the only thing that fixed it.

Of course that's a much cheaper fix here

[dykins]

Alan

 

Possibly, but may be unlikely as there is about 1/4 tank of fuel in, and it had previously run fine with the other 3/4 tank it had used until today.

 

Funnily enough though, I've just nipped out to my local Shell garage and bought two petrol cans of Optimax to put in the tank. More out of desperation in the hope that it was poor fuel.

 

It's made no difference though...

 

Regards

 

Peter

[Brian-Northampton]

Try replacing the condensor with a old one that was known to be good (but replaced out of good servicing habits). New condensors have an extremely poor reputation and known to fail within just a few miles.

 

Bri.

[PILKIE]

And the rotor arm as well.

Had fun finding a misfire fault on my 6 a while ago,turned out to be a jammed up HT - rotor carbon connection in the cap!

[Roly]

Build up of crud above the needle valves in the carb float chambers?

Need to take needle valve out to really check. As the fuel float level will look fine by the time one takes the top of the float chamber off, because the fuel can slowly seep by.

 

I get this from time to time, despite installing filter and replacing hoses. I am coning to the conclusion that the replacement hoses don't like unleaded petrol.

 

Naturally it usually occurs just as one starts a ten mile section of motorway before the next turn off.....

 

Roly

[John Morrison]

Diaphram if you on Strombergs.

 

John.

[dykins]

Diaphram if you on Strombergs.

 

John.

 

 

John - it's blessed with SU carbs.

 

Thanks all for your suggestions.

 

I have ordered from the Distributor Doctor points, rotor arm, condenser and a dizzy cap.

 

Regards

 

Peter

[dykins]

Just a quick update.

 

Ordered parts from Distributor Doctor on Monday lunchtime - delivered yesterday morning!

 

Last night Simon Beresford came around last night and after a bit of tinkering, it looks as though I had a faulty condensor (even though a new one was fitted only two months ago

 

TR back in the rudest of health

 

Big thanks to Simon

 

Regards

 

Peter

[RogerH]

Hi Peter,

not sure how you and Simon attacked the problem but for any newbies out there if you have more than one suspect item, change only one item at a time.

That way you will know which was causing the fault, and you will have some useful spares left over.

 

Roger

[Brian-Northampton]

looks as though I had a faulty condensor (even though a new one was fitted only two months ago

 

A very familiar story ..... and one which has pursuaded many people to go electronic.

 

Bri.

[dykins]

A very familiar story ..... and one which has pursuaded many people to go electronic.

 

Bri.

 

 

 

Interestingly enough Brian, when it was serviced at "a well known specialist in the NW" I asked about having electronic ignition installed. The reply was that I'd be wasting my money as so many are apparently unreliable and at least keeping it standard it is easy to fix if it's not working. Coupled with the fact that - up until recently - I'd never had any starting problems, so why spend additional money on something that my car did not appear to need.

 

Regards

 

Peter

[Brian-Northampton]

Hi Peter,

 

I've read a few threads here on electronic ignition systems being unreliable, but on my other forum (for my Rover P6, there are no such comments...and they seem to work well) My Pertronix in my Rover works well, but after 2-3 years I can't yet vouch for long term reliability.

 

We've had many discussions on the Rover forum about the **** condensors being sold today, and on most reported occassions of running problems, if we found that the condensor had been recently changed then almost always....the new one was the problem! Poor shoddy workmanship! That is why when I read your initial post, I thought - definately a **** new condensor!

 

At the moment, my TR4 is running the standard points ignition without problems, but I have a spare old condensor in the toolbox..... just in case! I'd strongly advise that everyone does the same.

 

I found this link ages ago which is an interesting article a chap wrote after trying to find out why his condensors kept failing ...... if you ever wondered what was inside one it's an interesting read. Failed Condensors Dismantled.

 

Cheers and best regards,

Bri.

[RogerH]

Hi Brian,

I liked your link but not sure about the chaps abilities.

To check the capacitor (at last somebody not calling it a condensor) for shorts etc using a 'Megger' insulation tester would do as required.

The metal can Auto capacitors are rubbish compared to industrial items.

I would have thought he could have soldered ring tags to the capacitor leads (get rid of the PCB) and bond/glue the capacitor to the body of the coil.

 

 

Roger

[shroptr]

hi just an update on peters TR4 , went thru the dizzy easy bit first , new cap no difference, new red rotor arm no difference, new points not as bright a spark as with the original (that was new and had better plastic insulators) so popped on the new condensor still a weak spark so original points back on set the gap and pressto everything was fine

so we managed to get it down to 2 things(point/condensor )wich in the TR world seems ok by me

 

a couple of months ago had a prob with our daughters tr4 dizzy,ended up buying a new generic d45 for £28 delivered to our door had everything in it including the cap, just had to change the base plate ,took the old one out lined up the new one,plug leads on ,power lead to it and it fired up staight out of the box ,a few weeks later we drove it up to our daughter and son in law up in lossiemouth scotland , 8 hours at 70mph (its a long way up there) and we managed 30mpg.

so i orderd another 2 dizzys for that price (we have 4 x 4cylinder cars on the road at the moment) to keep as spares

 

all the best simon

[RogerH]

Hi Simon,

at Prescott the other month one of my collegues changed his points as he thought they were knackered.

The new ones did not provide a cure - still no spark.

Out with the multimeter - after a few prods and pokes I found that the new contacts had a insulated film on them (permanent open circuit).

 

Clean points, all sorted.

 

However the original problem was still present. Push HT lead apprx 1" back into the coil - all sorted.

 

Roger

[stuart]

You should always clean off the face of new points before fitting. Very basic rule, they are film covered to stop corrosion in the box.

Stuart

[Brian-Northampton]

I liked your link but not sure about the chaps abilities.

 

Hi Roger,

 

Yes, it's a bit "Heath Robinson" isn't it, however this was the only link I found which instead of moaning about faulty condensors (OK, capacitors) of which there are LOADS, he actually took some apart to have a look and found arching within the unit, which isn't good, but an interesting read.

 

Auto units might be rubbish compared to industrial ones of which size is no object, but none the less very interesting and shows up some poor workmanship.

 

Either way, we are certainly experiencing a much poorer quality of automotive ignition components that we used to.

 

Like I said - always carry a spare! I still do even in my P6 with electronic ignition, I have a very small box hidden away with the necessary stuff to convert the dizzy back if ever the need arises.

 

Cheers,

Bri.

[adriantr4]

Hello

 

I'd like to add my voice to on-going bad running problems. I've fiddled with/checked/reset just about everything on the ignition & carbs (SU's) & its just getting dramatically & progressively worse despite all my efforts.

 

However, I reckon its ignition & after reading the above threads I will change the (very new) Condensor/Capacitor. Plus, my plug leads are ancient old things, so well past their sell-by date. I'll replace these too.

 

Main clues: mixtures are ok & balanced but plugs fouling really quick - in minutes, plus bad missing, backfires ..... The ignition parts otherwise all 100% or new: The rotor arm is a recent Distributor Doctor purchase.

 

I have 2 questions:

 

1)As my coil is probably about as old as the car, how reliable are they in old age?

2) I failed to clean the recent points when brand new - but they make/break ok with a test bulb across them? They wouldnt cause missing/back-fire running?

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Adrian,

 

Coils do deteriorate with the passing years, generally speaking, although in fairness some seem to go on almost for ever. Yours may well be past its sell-by date, more than 10 years old and it may well be past it.

 

Ignition leads have a limited lifespan, in terms of both calendar age and mileage - they are working in a harsh environment underbonnet. In terms of an everyday road car, I change mine at say 4 years or 40K miles as a matter of course. Even in a TR covering modest mileage I wouldn't expect them to last out a decade.

 

As for the points, run a fine file (eg nail file) across them gently a few times.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Brian-Northampton]

When you say that your plugs are fouling, can you elaborate? Are they sooty or oily??

 

I ran my old Rover P6 on the original plug leads for 38 years and only replaced them last year - because it was about time!!! There was absolutely nothing wrong with them and they had done 65,000 miles. I've since replaced them with a bespoke set from Magnecor. When I spoke to Phil at Magnecor, he said that they had lasted so well simply because of the low mileage of the car as the biggest enemy of the plug leads is the significant levels of heat under the bonnet.

 

Cheers,

Bri.