MVC 575

[Guest DeBartolomeis]

Hey, i've been looking everywhere and I can't find more information about the tr2 jabbeke car. I'm interested where it is now. Does ken richardson's family own it or is it in a barn in Germany? Or possibly, is it restored in a greedy collectors garage? If you have any pictures, could you please post them.

 

Thanks,

James

[TR3BGeorge]

Hey, i've been looking everywhere and I can't find more information about the tr2 jabbeke car. I'm interested where it is now. Does ken richardson's family own it or is it in a barn in Germany? Or possibly, is it restored in a greedy collectors garage? If you have any pictures, could you please post them.

 

Thanks,

James

 

For the 40th Anniversary of the TR Register, its newsletter is a very detailed history of the organization, put together by Bill Piggott. In Chapter 3, he has four pages dedicated to MVC 575 and the 1970 owner, Graham Hallett. At that time, the car was "beat to hell," as we say over here. Among other things, it was converted to RHS and had a TR3A front apron. He talked about completely restoring it in 2 years. The car was quite a sorry sight, particularly in light of its sterling history. I hope he finished it. So far, he hadn't done much. He said that the car is monikered as "Jabbeke Charley."

 

That car should receive the same treatment that was given to TS1 and TS2. Hell, THAT car was probably the most important Triumph ever built. When the word got around the world that it turned 124 mph, it was "Katie Bar the Door" for Triumph! And, of course, the MOST important historical car, "the one that got away," was the first 20 TS shown at the 1952 Earl's Court show. As we all know, it was dismantled and cannibalized for later prototypes. The ultimate museum piece...

 

James, if you DO hear anything on MVC 575, PLEASE PRINT IT TO THE FORUM !!!!!

[Guest DeBartolomeis]

George, Thanks for your reply. What a shame it is for something so valuable to go to a waste! I do have a lot of vintage pictures about it. I will be putting a collage together soon of ALL of the triumph history.

[Guest DeBartolomeis]

Wait! could this be it???? Did Graham Hallett take off the tr1 emblem?

Edited July 6, 2010 by DeBartolomeis

[Andrew Smith]

No, that's TS2 looking pretty.

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Guest DeBartolomeis]

Thanks Andrew

 

By chance, do you have any pictures?

[Andrew Smith]

Thanks Andrew By chance, do you have any pictures?

No, not of MVC 575 - sorry, but I do have a video of the Jabbeke speed record - it is on the Belgium TR Register's celebration video of the 50th aniversary which may be on YouTube?

 

I would email it, but it's 700MB!

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Guest DeBartolomeis]

Yea i've studied that video. Pretty interesting thing..

[Graham Robson]

As far as is known, the remains/basket case/fill in your own description of MVC 575 is owned by a TR Register member who is London-based, and has several other precious Triumph prototypes. He does not like publicity, he does not show the cars in public and, as far as I can understand, he is making little attempt to restore anything that he owns.

 

He has, however, been invited to the re-union of 'works' Triumphs at Malvern in July.

 

Even so, I make this promise. If a properly-restored MVC 575 appears at Malvern, or at any other Triumph occasion in the near future, I will personally stand by it, stark naked, and lick it all over. Deal ?

 

GRAHAM ROBSON

[ianhoward]

 

 

Even so, I make this promise. If a properly-restored MVC 575 appears at Malvern, or at any other Triumph occasion in the near future, I will personally stand by it, stark naked, and lick it all over. Deal ?

 

GRAHAM ROBSON

 

 

Now there IS a challenge!!! (or maybe not!)

 

Brgds

[david ferry]

Graham,

 

You know too much.....sadly, you're right that none of this stuff will be restored or reunited with cars that need specific parts.

 

I think your modesty is safe and secure!

 

David

[Alec Pringle]

Quite some offer Graham, just about the best excuse for a working party I've ever heard !

 

Jesting apart, the Jabbeke TR2 is still with its owner of so many years and still awaiting restoration. I've been acquainted with said owner for a lot more than 30 years. He gets a bad press, generally speaking, much of which is undeserved. He isn't reclusive, as some might suggest, but he is an intensely private, reserved and retiring individual who values his own privacy.

 

Let's not forget that several of the significant cars he owns were rescued from destruction or dismantling at a time when no one else had much, if any, inclination to do anything with them - other than break for spares. The benefit of hindsight is a wonderful thing, but few of us were into rescuing basketcases in the 1970s, no matter how important they may seem today. Sure, the man is an obsessive collector - of TRs, TR parts, and Standard Triumph factory autombilia. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, many of us have projects awaiting a Round Tuit. In this case, it needs to be a giant size solid gold Round Tuit.

 

I've often heard that the man rarely sells anything, only buys - true enough, up to a point. Other owners of significant cars might tell you a different story, of ultra-rare TR items gratefully received as swaps or even foc . . . because our man had rescued them, and held on to them for years until someone else got round to restoring a particular car. As he doesn't seek or wish publicity, such instances are rarely mentioned, at his own request.

 

A few of the cars have been shown in public in the past - the reaction from some who ought to know better wouldn't encourage anyone in our man's position to repeat the exercise, and I can well understand his reluctance to enable access to his hoard.

 

Yes I agree that the cars should have been restored long ago, as the owner intended. Life doesn't always pan out according to the game plan, sh*t happens. Sooner or later the cars will be restored . . . at least they haven't been destroyed, and nor have they been cloned or faked. More than can be said for some 'ex-works' classic cars.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Tr4Tony]

All

 

Id like to add a little this if I may, having seen many of the cars in the ownership of this gentleman over the years.

 

I also think its important to make sure that everyone knows that this particular car MVC 575 (or whats left of it) is definately owned and known to a number of people in the TR Register, so there is NO opportunity for anyone to find it elsewhere in a shed, yard, in the hands of mysterious military personnel extraordinarily rendited etc. etc. etc. unlike other 'lost' cars I might point at ...

 

My opinion is that we are actually pretty fortunate that this man is around, because much of what he has collected over the years has genuinely been saved from being scrapped, broken up or dispersed to the four winds. The number of times I have heard people say ' oh that thing got scrapped because there was no one around that wanted it or no cash to pay for it' I cannot recount. Well this man was around, was interested and did put his hand in his pocket. He bought what most at the time were not interested in, at a time when it wasnt worth anything, or on occasions when it needed an arm and a leg amputating to put the cash up to secure it.

 

Whats more commendable for me, having been in the same position only a few times now over the near 20 years that Ive had an eye for TR's and having had to back off because of 'lack of commitment due to money' is the context of all this. This man has the resources of a normal working individual, he is not some rich bloke. What he has done is literally poured all he has ever had into collecting some very important cars and parts. In all the time I have known him his intention has always been to restore all of the cars he has, so that they are preserved. Nothing more, nothing less. He is an enthusiast for the marque that we are all interested in, and then some. I don't think he has ever made any money out of it, and as Alec says Ive also benefitted from his benevolence on more than one occasion.

 

I do know that there are very few of us who can afford to restore more than one TR, never mind a brace of important TR's and I think its fair comment to say that it might be a slow process or maybe never with some of these, but I see this to this to be due to money, not will or lack of intent. At the end of the day these things are this man's property and he needs to be free to do as he sees fit. He may decide to let others have a go at some of them in the future, thats his choice. At least the cars survive to make this an option and for that reason Im happy to back him.

 

I'd love to see MVC 575 at the IW one year, despite Graham's kind offer (!!) - perhaps that alone would be enough to speed the project along!

 

All the best

 

Tony

[roy53]

A new set of number plates on TS2 , and then it will be get your kit of Graham

[Guest DeBartolomeis]

Alec thanks for your response as well. I've been very curious about this topic and you all have answered it. I wonder what other special triumph cars he has. Alec may you tell us? Also do you have any pictures of his cars.

 

Thanks,

James

[Alec Pringle]

Hi James,

 

without wishing to sound rude or unhelpful, no I don't discuss in detail other folks' private collections in a public forum - especially when they don't wish it !

 

I'm sure you can read between the lines of my previous post, and Big Tony's follow up, and understand why there is reticence to discuss detail of cars long disappeared from view. There are less scrupulous individuals around . . . .

 

By all means email me if you wish, you can do that through this Forum.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Guest DeBartolomeis]

Hi James,

 

without wishing to sound rude or unhelpful, no I don't discuss in detail other folks' private collections in a public forum - especially when they don't wish it !

 

I'm sure you can read between the lines of my previous post, and Big Tony's follow up, and understand why there is reticence to discuss detail of cars long disappeared from view. There are less scrupulous individuals around . . . .

 

By all means email me if you wish, you can do that through this Forum.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

 

 

I understand Alec,

 

I respect his privacy, but to hold such a great part in triumph history away from us is a shame. In time is all it takes.

 

Best Regards,

James

[TR3BGeorge]

Thanks, guys, for the great insight and input. I tend to agree with James. Have you saved it if you stash it away until you die? I was saddened to see TS1L go to the guy in Hawaii, for his "private collection." We will never see it again.

 

Now, more importantly, THIS IS GOING TO BE A LONG NIGHT FOR ME. I have to go to bed with the mental image of a NAKED GRAHAM ROBSON dancing in my brain.

[Guest DeBartolomeis]

Thanks, guys, for the great insight and input. I tend to agree with James. Have you saved it if you stash it away until you die? I was saddened to see TS1L go to the guy in Hawaii, for his "private collection." We will never see it again.

 

Now, more importantly, THIS IS GOING TO BE A LONG NIGHT FOR ME. I have to go to bed with the mental image of a NAKED GRAHAM ROBSON dancing in my brain.

 

 

Well at least the TS1L is restored and it sometimes makes appearances at events. I'm currently trying to contact the owner to visit the National Triumph Convention in Colorado, USA 2011.

Edited June 2, 2010 by DeBartolomeis

[Rodbr]

Hi James if that is your name, I notice from your limited profile you joined the forum on the 31st of May 2010, but do not share much information about yourself there, I wonder why. Perhaps you are a private type of person.

I confess to be somewhat dismayed by the way this post both started and the direction it has taken.

You say you wish to make a collage of pictures, I take it that this would be for your own voyeuristic pleasure so why is that any different to the present owner wishing to keep the car to himself. At no time have you suggested that you either sought or intend to request contact with the present owner to ask if he wished to have his property displayed.

I have not seen anything in the various posts about anyone who either helped, paid for, or contributed in any way to the "saving" of any Special cars. That is because this man single handed, researched, then searched for, put in the work when no one else could be bothered and saved by whatever definition you might use, this car from certain extinction. He paid all the transport costs, import duty, excise duty, vat, etc, etc , and now enjoys the fruits of his labours.

Posters have made statements as to the owner’s intentions for the car, the state the car is in now and the likely end result. I would conjecture that those making those statements do so without definitive knowledge, through either arrogance, or worse by malicious intention and maybe even a touch of jealousy. Far too many ill-informed petty remarks for a forum like this for my liking.

There is not one single post that suggests that anyone would be willing to assist and offer a donation to fund a restoration, even if one is required.

By what right do you assume that you should have access to the car as and when you please and presumably at this man’s expence. Perhaps, using your thought process we could all come and have a picnic on your lawn.

Do you assume that another person's property is yours to view by right, if so by what right, just because it happens to be an iconic item? Perhaps you might have a collection of antiques that you have amassed over the years that would like us all to have access to, or perhaps offer us pictures of your wife, children or house in other words your prized possessions. I think not!!!!

I see nothing other than the very well put statements by Alec and Tony, that is positive.

Finally, I find this series of posts objectionable and feel inclined to request that the moderator halt all further correspondence on this subject, in my view certain of the posts are particularly personal and not worthy of this forum.

[Guest DeBartolomeis]

Hi James if that is your name, I notice from your limited profile you joined the forum on the 31st of May 2010, but do not share much information about yourself there, I wonder why. Perhaps you are a private type of person.

I confess to be somewhat dismayed by the way this post both started and the direction it has taken.

You say you wish to make a collage of pictures, I take it that this would be for your own voyeuristic pleasure so why is that any different to the present owner wishing to keep the car to himself. At no time have you suggested that you either sought or intend to request contact with the present owner to ask if he wished to have his property displayed.

I have not seen anything in the various posts about anyone who either helped, paid for, or contributed in any way to the "saving" of any Special cars. That is because this man single handed, researched, then searched for, put in the work when no one else could be bothered and saved by whatever definition you might use, this car from certain extinction. He paid all the transport costs, import duty, excise duty, vat, etc, etc , and now enjoys the fruits of his labours.

Posters have made statements as to the owner’s intentions for the car, the state the car is in now and the likely end result. I would conjecture that those making those statements do so without definitive knowledge, through either arrogance, or worse by malicious intention and maybe even a touch of jealousy. Far too many ill-informed petty remarks for a forum like this for my liking.

There is not one single post that suggests that anyone would be willing to assist and offer a donation to fund a restoration, even if one is required.

By what right do you assume that you should have access to the car as and when you please and presumably at this man’s expence. Perhaps, using your thought process we could all come and have a picnic on your lawn.

Do you assume that another person's property is yours to view by right, if so by what right, just because it happens to be an iconic item? Perhaps you might have a collection of antiques that you have amassed over the years that would like us all to have access to, or perhaps offer us pictures of your wife, children or house in other words your prized possessions. I think not!!!!

I see nothing other than the very well put statements by Alec and Tony, that is positive.

Finally, I find this series of posts objectionable and feel inclined to request that the moderator halt all further correspondence on this subject, in my view certain of the posts are particularly personal and not worthy of this forum.

 

 

I dont understand what I was doing wrong. I was just wondering if older triumph members would aknowledge this post and tell me a little bit of history about this car. I was hooked to triumphs since i was 10. I've read almost all the books that my dad had in his library and I wanted to know more about this bit in history. I respect his privacy and thank god that it is still around today. I asked if i could see pictures because i am making a collage of al the post and pre war Triumphs. I am sorry if I offendded you but i'm an inquiring man that wants to learn more about the history from triumph experts like you yourself.

[Rodbr]

Hi James,

I would suggest that you reread all the posts again and then again if you do not understand the underlying current of opinion.

Alec and Tony sum things up perfectly and give you a background based on fact and long term relationship with the owner. A better way to tackle a true interest if that is what you really have, would be to ask for an introduction to the owner himself and talk to him and see if he really wants to give you access.

All to often comments are made by people who think they have heard the correct story but never actually talked to or better still met the man and in my view behave like the school bullies.

I would suggest that you refrain from making comments like "Well at least the TS1L is restored and it sometimes makes appearances at events. I'm currently trying to contact the owner to visit the National Triumph Convention in Colorado, USA 2011." as it sounds petulent. Also comments like "Or possibly, is it restored in a greedy collectors garage?" could be better phrased to people you seek help from.

Revel in the fact of your new found knowledge that the car does still exist and may eventually may be available for all to see should the present owner see fit.

Perhaps the level of blame should be directed at the previous owner who by Mr Robson's own account had the "basket case" in the 70's when it was just as iconic as it is now, but then again people have more disposable income to throw around now.

 

There are some seriously helpful people on this forum who give of their time and knowledge freely, there are others who have never broken sweat to own or maintain their cars, the range of rich and modest means owners makes for a variance of opinion that is quite diverse. Whilst others seek only to perpetuate their own ego by sniping at others who don't conform to their narrow minded ideals.

 

I for one, will probably never bring my totally unique January 1954 UK registered car to any event after what I have seen on this forum.

 

This isn't the the Healey or Jaguar drivers club yet!!!!!

Edited June 2, 2010 by Rodbr

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Rod,

 

careful now, keep your hair on, it's thinning faster than mine . . . .

 

James wasn't to know he was treading into a minefield, and presumably hasn't realised that most of what there is to know has been written up by Graham Robson, Bill Piggott and the other Triumph authors in their various books.

 

What is all too easily forgotten is that motor cars are personal possessions. Several of my and my wife's cars are 'interesting' for one reason or another. That doesn't mean that we have any responsibility to take them around for the enjoyment of all and sundry. Owners of historic or significant TRs are under absolutely no obligation to the rest of the TR community, their cars are their own to do with as they please. If an owner chooses to hide a car away, send it to the crusher, or chuck a match in the petrol tank, then that's his own affair.

 

By the same token, if an owner enters his precious relic in a concours contest then he invites comment by definition, and it seems reasonable enough for any spectator to offer his or her own personal comment on the standard of originality, for example. In contrast, if an owner simply turns up at an event he doesn't do so in order to be regaled by a dozen bar room experts telling him what he should and shouldn't do . . . . There are a number of owners of 'interesting' TRs who decline to attend TR events for just that reason. Can't say I blame them.

 

Individual sniping at the owners of particular cars is non-productive . . . . unless of course one wishes to ensure that they aren't going to attend. Which would be a rather sad approach.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Guest DeBartolomeis]

 

I for one, will probably never bring my totally unique January 1954 UK registered car to any event after what I have seen on this forum.

 

This isn't the the Healey or Jaguar drivers club yet!!!!!

 

 

Exuse me sir. If you really dont mind, i was just asking the history of this triumph. I like learning about this topic because it interests me. I respect

Graham's privacy as well as yours. Yes, I have learned many interesting things on this forum and I don't think I was asking to much. I guess personalities are different over here in The States. Whats the point of having an historical Triumph? Well it's your choice, but I think its nice to share the history of them. I'm not trying to start an argument here, but I have learned from you that it is not my affair with Graham. Now i want you to learn something. Dont take things so seroiusly in life. Life is too short, enjoy it and share it. I never meant for this little thing to change your decision. Heck! I say have fun with your Triumph no matter what anyone says.

 

Best Regards James

[Rodbr]

Hi James,

Yet again you seem to have missed the point completely and Please do not presume to lecture me about taking life easy. As Alec said your are treading on a minefield and there are some very contentious issues surrounding the more famous TR's.

My post was only partly directed at you but more at the people that seek to denigrate the present owner of MVC575. Most of them have probably never met him but pass judgement on what he does or does not do with HIS car. Please remember in all things that it is his car but it has not been "saved for nation" yet, god forbid.

This has nothing what so ever to do with Graham's privacy who is not certainly the owner in any case. Not sure how you got this impression. This is about sticking up for the guy who by his very nature would quite clearly not enter into discussion on an open forum, yet people seem intent on having a go at him.

 

If you do not wish to start an arguement I suggest that you contact Alec and Tony who have known him for years (as so clearly stated in their posts)or myself personally but please do so off forum.

 

Having read some of your other posts I further suggest that you check your information first before posting.