John Bazzano Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 I am in the process of restoring my '54 TR2, it's been off the road since the late '60s. My car was originally painted Signal Red but all the original trim and seat coverings had been replaced with Black from a TR3a. In researching the color combinations possible, I have found that my original trim colors could have been: Brown, Red or Stone. But I can't find exactly what Stone looked like. And how Brown is the original Brown? None of my reference books label any interior TR2 pictures as having Stone or Brown for the trim. Does anyone know of any links that show what this color actually looks like? Thanks for any help in sorting this out...... John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 The man to contact is Mike Ellis, the Registrar for TR2/3/3A models: mm.ellis@tiscali.co.uk There are some nice pictures of interior trim in Bill Piggott's "Original Triumph TR" books - obtainable from the TR Register on-line shop. However, I don't think one could use them as a sample for a trimmer, as colour depends so much on lighting. John Skinner (www.john-skinner.co.uk) has made and sold trim to countless numbers of TR owners over the years. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Bazzano Posted December 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Ian, I just found out that Stone was a beige/tan/fawn color. I was picturing something "rocky" in color I guess. Piggott's "Originality Guide" never listed any particular interior as being Stone in color, at least not that I could find. Now I need to find out what shade of brown, Brown was. Thanks for the contacts. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hi John, I have a couple of tiny snippets of 'brown' trim courtesy of Rod in Scotland, who has a very early 1954 TR2 which has also been hidden for decades. It's not a colour I'm familiar with, sort of a rich light-to-mid brown, the vynide trim now appearing slightly lighter than the leather - but that might just be age. To the best of my recollection it's not quite common to any of the trims I can recall seeing on other Triumphs or Standards of the time - the nearest I can think of is a late Renown saloon and an early Mayflower. One of my overdue tasks is to find a close matching current production trim, matching as in colour and grain pattern - thus far I've found one and not the other ! I'll have a look at some colour cards and see if I can relate it to a colour shade in BS or RAL, haven't any Pantone books conveniently available. As an aside, something I heard years ago when I had a business involvement with textiles. Vynide was an ICI product, notable mainly for its relatively low-flammability characteristics, and therefore applicable to all sorts of transport applications. The suggestion was that Standard Triumph looked to ICI's aeronautical fabric range rather than the automotive, to give a distinctive impression - and that approach had been suggested by Imperia of Belgium. Which might explain some of the odd colours ?! Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 John, If you want to know which colour trim your car originally had, send for a trace from Bill Piggott. For £6, you will get a full build spec of your car, including colours, numbers, build date and optional extras. Details in TRAction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 John, If you want to know which colour trim your car originally had, send for a trace from Bill Piggott. For £6, you will get a full build spec of your car, including colours, numbers, build date and optional extras. Details in TRAction. Not sure that will help you though as the Standard Motor company trace that Bill supplies is a bit abbreviated and doesnt give exact trim colours as in it will probably still just be listed as "Stone, Brown or Red or whatever". My TR2 one for example has the trim listed as "Blackberry" which is fairly vague. Luckily I have managed to match it with a modern equivalent from snippets under the cockpit cappings.(Leather covered!) Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR3BGeorge Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) Folks, John's original question about upholstery colors got me to thinking. Dangerous in my mental state. I know that the TR Register is making an effort to stock ORIGINAL parts and components, both for historical provenance and as templates for re-manufacturing at a later date. In this context, has the TRR made any effort to stock swatches of original upholstery colors? Remembering that the first TR-2s had some HORRIFIC exterior and interior colors (remember, the first two had geranium interiors), I would hope that someone, somewhere, has kept examples of these colors. It is interesting that, at about TS1400, someone finally decided to drop Geranium, Ice Blue, and Olive Yellow exterior colors, in favor of BRG, Pearl White, and Signal Red! Meanwhile, changes were surely ("don't call me Shirley") being made with upholstery colors. THIS is what I hope would be documented by someone. You are lucky enough to find TS4L. Your BMIHT Certificate tells you that the car left the factory with geranium exterior and Vomitus Greenus interior. You want to do a PERFECT restoration. Where can you get your hands on some vomitus greenus upholstery? Food for thought, if you'll pardon the segue. Well, with that, I'll go fix lunch. Au revoir, hasta luego, a demain, sayonara, lave sus manos. Edited December 27, 2009 by TR3BGeorge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Bazzano Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Brian, If this is a dumb question, please excuse the ignorance from a "YANK" but is Bill Piggott somehow associated with the Heritage Society that traces Triumph histories? I requested a Build Record from them but was told by Richard Bacchus, the Certificate Officer of BMIHT(?) Archives, that my records did not survive. Major let down, that was. I have extrapolated though, that my car was built the end of first week of October in 1954. And since I found some very light cream colored, probobly original seat covers under those now on the car, I guess I can assume it came with Stone trim. I really wish I could have gotten that Certificate. And George I think that's a great idea about rounding up misc. color samples! thanks again, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hi John, Bill Piggott is the archivist of the TR Register here in the UK. http://www.tr-register.co.uk/contact.php BMIHT archives are less comprehensive than one might hope, and in some instances are either yet to be sorted or unreadable. However, there are at least some older Standard Triumph factory records in other hands, and it is these to which Bill has access . . . contact him at the Register office as per the above link. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Stuart is absolutely correct in the vagueness of the trace regarding colours - my thought was that at least John would know which of the three possible trim colours he needs. However, the trace is an excellent piece of each car's history in which all owners should invest while they have the chance. Who knows how long Bill will want to carry on providing this service? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Brian, If this is a dumb question, please excuse the ignorance from a "YANK" but is Bill Piggott somehow associated with the Heritage Society that traces Triumph histories? I requested a Build Record from them but was told by Richard Bacchus, the Certificate Officer of BMIHT(?) Archives, that my records did not survive. Major let down, that was. I have extrapolated though, that my car was built the end of first week of October in 1954. And since I found some very light cream colored, probobly original seat covers under those now on the car, I guess I can assume it came with Stone trim. I really wish I could have gotten that Certificate. And George I think that's a great idea about rounding up misc. color samples! thanks again, John I had exactly the same response from BMIHT when I tried to buy a heritage certificate for my TR3a but Bill came up with the goods in his original build records. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 However, the trace is an excellent piece of each car's history in which all owners should invest while they have the chance. Who knows how long Bill will want to carry on providing this service? I'm sure the service would continue even if Bill decides to give it up. It's only because the guy who has the original records prefers, understandably, to deal with one official Register person only. That would normally be a job for the TR2/3/3A Registrar but Bill kept on this task when Mike Ellis took over as Registrar. Before Bill took this one, 'twas I who provided the service. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I'm sure the service would continue even if Bill decides to give it up. It's only because the guy who has the original records prefers, understandably, to deal with one official Register person only. I assume the Register is confident that the service can be continued, but I'm slightly concerned by Alec's comment that the records are distributed. Surely, the Register and BMIHT should at least attempt to keep track of, or obtain backup copies of these vital records? [sorry, slight drift from original topic, but I think it's important in terms of attempting to resolve queries such as this]. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Hi John, As an 18 year old I had a Signal Red TR2, TS7881-0, with brown leather trim, and although I only have B & W photos, I recall it was a lighter tan colour than natural brown leather. Picture a light brown leather trouser belt as a modern equivalent. I've seen stone trim in an early Signal Red TR3A, and it's best described as like a weathered river pebble. You could also describe it as a bone colour. I'm pretty sure The Roadster Factory in PA, has trim samples that are virtually identical to the original colours. Regards, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Bazzano Posted December 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Viv, Thanks for the insight on your old TR2 brown colors and your discription of "Stone" as being bone colored is perfect. In fact thanks to all responents. As was suggested I've sent off a message to Bill Piggott regarding my cars build record, hope this search direction pans out. It amazes me that here I am getting great info and help so quickly from the other sides of the globe! God bless the internet and all within! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Not sure that will help you though as the Standard Motor company trace that Bill supplies is a bit abbreviated and doesnt give exact trim colours as in it will probably still just be listed as "Stone, Brown or Red or whatever". My TR2 one for example has the trim listed as "Blackberry" which is fairly vague. Luckily I have managed to match it with a modern equivalent from snippets under the cockpit cappings.(Leather covered!) Stuart. Stuart, Just dug up this old post.. You mention you have found blackberry as color for the interior of the tr2. Unfortunately i have a major repair on my tr2 due to a crash barrier suddenly crossing in the direction my tr2 wanted to go... So now is the time to spend some extra time and money in the tr2. I'm looking into changing the interior of my Signal Red from black to red/brown/blackberry/maroon - ish. John skinner is offering a kit in maroon color: http://www.triumph-trim.co.uk/html/photos/TR2SeatMaroon.jpg Does this match the blackberry color ? cheers Edwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 That looks too brown to me.The set I had made up is like this. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 hi, that has some purple shining or is it the photo? I agree the john skinner set is more brown, but i think it matches the signal red beter than more purple. is your color the one used in the olive yellow car in the bill piggot bible? cheers edwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
angelfj Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I am in the process of restoring my '54 TR2, it's been off the road since the late '60s. My car was originally painted Signal Red but all the original trim and seat coverings had been replaced with Black from a TR3a. In researching the color combinations possible, I have found that my original trim colors could have been: Brown, Red or Stone. But I can't find exactly what Stone looked like. And how Brown is the original Brown? None of my reference books label any interior TR2 pictures as having Stone or Brown for the trim. Does anyone know of any links that show what this color actually looks like? Thanks for any help in sorting this out...... John John: Hope you are aware that there's help on this side of the pond. For the early side screen cars I recommend TRA. For the forum goto: http://triumphregister.lefora.com/ For the main website goto: http://www.triumphregister.com/ Cheers, Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Hi Frank, Perhaps John has found his answer, i dug up this old thread for a question about the color. thanks for help anyway ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Edwin, its always difficult to see colour difference on a computer as the monitors may not be the same. That colour is not in any way purple and having matched it to an original un-faded sample taken from my TR2`s original Blackberry trim I know its the nearest currently available allowing for slight differences between the leather and the Vinyl. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Hi Stuart, thanx ! have a PM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 John - From an old list printed many years ago from TRSC (TR Register of So. Calif.) I see a signal red TR2 with Comm. No. TS 4828 L (no overdrive) built on Nov. 25th, 1954 after 3 pm with Body Shell 770947 with grey leather interior trim and a black hood (top). Maybe these numbers are close to yours ? For more info, you could ask TRSC about this list by Jon Korbin which may have been up-dated since I got this. BTW - Good luck with the Peerless. My friend here is not reporting any progress on his late Phase 2 Peerless. Cheers Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A TS 27489 LO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Hi Don, John started the thread but i have "hijacked" it.. My TR2 has number 4762, so probably build on the same day of the one before. Mine is in its original colors: Signal Red with black interior. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdwtrxk Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Stone was indeed a pale bisquit color, and often had the 'geometric' (not metric) pattern in the rexine. It's very similar to the 'old bisquit' offered by some Jaguar purveyors except that TR materials lacked the 'wash' antique originally applied to the Jag materials. Some TR colors in 'metric' like the grey, were antiqued however. Something close for Stone shouldn't be hard to find, and everyone (or almost everyone) likes a Signal Red and Stone TR2.. One possible easy source would be to look into Mercedes purveyors for colors such as cream or cream beige. MB Tex is a nice fabric that works well and is durable. Some MB fabrics have antiquing and some not. I was going to use it on my XK150DHC but was convinced not to. Wish I had. For awhile, nice trim kits wwere available in something close to Stone in both antiqued and not. Then we ran into a time when the vynil was antiqued and the hides not - a sorry looking combo, but not as bad as the metric grey leather/rexine originally fitted to our cars. Don't know where we are today but I do know that whatever you do in Stone get enough extra to recover as much of the interior as you might be needed to do at some time, because the dye lots vary horribly. Ran into this with the XK using ICI and custom dyed hides; I can't perfectly match the vynil to redo a few things. MB fabrics will vary much less. Blackberry stuck around long past TS 1400. There was an undisturbed White 1957 TR3A that showed up at TRA fifteen or so years ago that was trimmed in BB. The original glovebox mounted Smiths Radiomobile kit in my TS227LO actually came from a car in the very early 4000 range. The glovebox/radio plate thingie still had its geometric BB rexine. BB isn't too hard to get close in color, except the carpet which had a definate oxblood tone to it rather than a straight maroon or burgandy. Jim Keller's carpet is dead on as it's NOS from Hirsch. I'm a yard and a bit short; I grabbed the last of it shortly after he did and haven't been able to source the last bit. I ended up using Jaguar Mulberry in Wilton #3 which is a very nice burgundy but definately lacks the oxblood tone. It will have to do unless I get very lucky. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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