angelfj Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 One good thing about retirement is that I have time to investigate minute details. Here is a screen shot from the "Jabbeke" 50 year Anniversary film produced by the TR folks in Belgium. This is a TR3A, driven by a woman. Does anyone know what is the extra lever at the bottom of the normal gearbox remote control? I apologize for the poor quality of the screen capture. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rkas3882 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 overdrive switch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
angelfj Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 overdrive switch Really? Is that your opinion or do you know the car? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Herald948 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 I can't cite sources at the moment, but my understanding is that this was common on various Belgian-assembled Triumphs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G.Guiot Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Your mystery gear box is equiped with a MANUAL overdrive, some of them have been produced by the Belgium factory IMPERIA (at the same time as the coupé Francorchamps) I join some photos of the gearbox with its manual overdrive.... there was one for sale on e-bay few weeks ago. Rgds GG (www.trmentvotre.com) One good thing about retirement is that I have time to investigate minute details. Here is a screen shot from the "Jabbeke" 50 year Anniversary film produced by the TR folks in Belgium. This is a TR3A, driven by a woman. Does anyone know what is the extra lever at the bottom of the normal gearbox remote control? I apologize for the poor quality of the screen capture. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 One wonders what was the cost of all that metalwork against the switch, relay, isolator switches, solenoid and a few extra wires of the arrangement with which most of us are familiar. And, how does one guarantee that overdrive has been disengaged before reversing - a reliance on memory? I cannot see any sign of an interlock, although it would be possible, I suppose, to have something to prevent the reverse gear selector shaft sliding forward as long as overdrive remains engaged. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
angelfj Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Geesh guys. This is marvelous trivia. Thanks for the education. Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Webster Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 One wonders what was the cost of all that metalwork against the switch, relay, isolator switches, solenoid and a few extra wires of the arrangement with which most of us are familiar. And, how does one guarantee that overdrive has been disengaged before reversing - a reliance on memory? I cannot see any sign of an interlock, although it would be possible, I suppose, to have something to prevent the reverse gear selector shaft sliding forward as long as overdrive remains engaged.Ian Cornish Ian, In the second and third pictures you can see a tab of metal to the right and ahead of the overdrive lever that would prevent you moving the gear lever into reverse position unless the overdrive lever is pulled back. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Herald948 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 In the second and third pictures you can see a tab of metal to the right and ahead of the overdrive lever that would prevent you moving the gear lever into reverse position unless the overdrive lever is pulled back.Nick,in looking at those pictures, is it possible that moving the "main" gear lever into reverse would mechanically force the overdrive lever back to it's "off" position? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Webster Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Nick,in looking at those pictures, is it possible that moving the "main" gear lever into reverse would mechanically force the overdrive lever back to it's "off" position? I think it is - indeed what mechanical engineer could resist being that clever? Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 I've only seen this one 'in real life' last year. Off course without a camera present... A black (with black upholstery) TR2. Originally sold in Holland (you can tell that when you see the car; it's a license plate related thing). The car had two levers, just like the ones on the photo's. The upholstery had been cut away for a good fit. I don't remember a second rubber grommet. I think that most TR Francorchamps had this layout. Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 There are several TR2's with the manual o/d in the Belgium TR Register. These o/d were in fact only fitted to cars assembled at Nessonvaux by Imperia and at o/d available for all forward gears. As correctly mentioned a small lip on the upper bracket prevented engagement when selecting reverse gear. A closeup taken in a friend's garage Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 It's all too easy to underestimate the experience and expertise of the Imperia company. Imperia wasn't just a bunch of guys bolting together CKD kits. Once designers and manufacturers of luxury cars, in the latter 30s producers of Adler based fwd cars Imperia even got as far as experimenting with 4wd saloons. They were also designers and manufacturers of machine tools. Then there was the association with Minerva, and indirectly Voisin, and Hotchkiss Amilcar. That's a lot of engineering background. The Imperia factory was utilised by REME after the liberation of Belgium, as was that of Minerva, which may explain Sir John Black's enthusiasm for coming to an agreement with Imperia in 1946, regardless of Imperia's plans for the Hotchkiss engined small and medium sized cars of their own. OK, initially the Standard 8s and 14s were little more than re-badged Coventry products, but from the start of Vanguard assembly in 1948 Imperia rapidly developed along parallel lines. Production was more than just Vanguards, just about all the various Triumph and Standard models were assembled by Imperia, with greater or lesser degrees of their own input, from 1947 until the opening of S-T's own factory at Malines in 1958. Laycock overdrive was optional on most Imperia built cars, and standard on some, and offered as both electric or mechanical operation to choice. Clearly they were all too well aware of the reputation of Lucas, Prince of Darkness. Construction of the mechanical system was doubtless a piece of cake, given their engineering resources; and the TR system a lot simpler than that of the Vanguard Nessonvaux Cabriolet, column shift mechanically-actuated overdrive. The speculations already aired are correct - the engagement of reverse automatically knocked the o/d lever out, on floor and column shifts alike. There was even an experimental 'logic control' system, I presume intended for competition use, which disengaged overdrive on upshifts, developed for both mechanical and electrical actuation. Imperia were responsible for a whole variety of innovations on S-T vehicles, and I can't help wondering how much of this was testing the water on behalf of S-T, or Black preferring to prototype experiments in Belgium ? Perhaps Graham Robson might have some insights ? Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
angelfj Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 It's all too easy to underestimate the experience and expertise of the Imperia company. Imperia wasn't just a bunch of guys bolting together CKD kits. Once designers and manufacturers of luxury cars, in the latter 30s producers of Adler based fwd cars Imperia even got as far as experimenting with 4wd saloons. They were also designers and manufacturers of machine tools. Then there was the association with Minerva, and indirectly Voisin, and Hotchkiss Amilcar. That's a lot of engineering background. The Imperia factory was utilised by REME after the liberation of Belgium, as was that of Minerva, which may explain Sir John Black's enthusiasm for coming to an agreement with Imperia in 1946, regardless of Imperia's plans for the Hotchkiss engined small and medium sized cars of their own. OK, initially the Standard 8s and 14s were little more than re-badged Coventry products, but from the start of Vanguard assembly in 1948 Imperia rapidly developed along parallel lines. Production was more than just Vanguards, just about all the various Triumph and Standard models were assembled by Imperia, with greater or lesser degrees of their own input, from 1947 until the opening of S-T's own factory at Malines in 1958. Laycock overdrive was optional on most Imperia built cars, and standard on some, and offered as both electric or mechanical operation to choice. Clearly they were all too well aware of the reputation of Lucas, Prince of Darkness. Construction of the mechanical system was doubtless a piece of cake, given their engineering resources; and the TR system a lot simpler than that of the Vanguard Nessonvaux Cabriolet, column shift mechanically-actuated overdrive. The speculations already aired are correct - the engagement of reverse automatically knocked the o/d lever out, on floor and column shifts alike. There was even an experimental 'logic control' system, I presume intended for competition use, which disengaged overdrive on upshifts, developed for both mechanical and electrical actuation. Imperia were responsible for a whole variety of innovations on S-T vehicles, and I can't help wondering how much of this was testing the water on behalf of S-T, or Black preferring to prototype experiments in Belgium ? Perhaps Graham Robson might have some insights ? Cheers, Alec Alec: Many thanks for your excellent input! Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Webster Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Crikey! Alec has gone into overdrive! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) Crikey! Alec has gone into overdrive! He reminds me of the radio show of my boyhead boyhood (thanks Ian), featuring Leslie Welch -The Memory Man. Edited August 14, 2009 by BrianC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Brian, Up too early, old man! Leslie Welch - yes. Your boyhead! Forgot to put the hood down, eh?! Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Smith Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Crikey! Alec has gone into overdrive! No, he's just a 'Lay' Preacher! Cheers Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Brian, Up too early, old man! Leslie Welch - yes. Your boyhead! Forgot to put the hood down, eh?! Ian Cornish Doh!! Yes - could do with more sleep but Lynda's still working so I'm getting up at the old time of 5:30'ish. Eyes and typing fingers not fully awake even after a couple of hours Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 There is an exellent book available about the Imperia history and all the cars they built or assembled, unfortunately it's only in french. In the picture under the name of the factory you can spot the part of the lumber test track that was for about 25 percent located on roof of the factory An interesting fact is that in the 20th they did built a 4stroke engine without valves, the cylinder walls had an integrated vertically sliding part with slots that functioned as valves. This sliding parts were controlled by camshafts in the bottom part of the engine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RAK Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Saw this beautiful example at IWE Malvern......now I know what that lever was for.......sorry about the reflections......thats the problem with side windows! Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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