Babs Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Hi all, I am going to renew the front discs on my 4A, is it worth using grooved or vented discs? will it show any marked improvement. I currently have standard discs with green stuff pads and no servo. I must admit when I replaced the fluid for silicon,it took a bit of getting used to as the braking seemed a little ''softer'' is this normal?has anyone else experienced this? best regards Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jerrytr5 Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Hi all,I am going to renew the front discs on my 4A, is it worth using grooved or vented discs? will it show any marked improvement. I currently have standard discs with green stuff pads and no servo. I must admit when I replaced the fluid for silicon,it took a bit of getting used to as the braking seemed a little ''softer'' is this normal?has anyone else experienced this? best regards Lee Get rid of the silicon. Get rid of of the Green Junk. Fit yourself some drilled & slotted discs with Hawke HPS pads and you will see a difference on the track but probably not much on the road. Jerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 If your brakes seem "softer" with silicon, I think it likely you still have a very small amount of air in the system - try careful bleeding once again (there are some useful posts on the Forum about this). For a road car - even a fast road car - standard discs, silicon fluid, no servo is fine. It's what I have been using for the past 16 years and I have discussed the possibility of upgrading with Neil Revington, who said, "why? - you are not competing with the car". Fitting braided hoses is very worthwhile, if you have not already done so. Modern pads are designed for modern discs and they don't work in the same way as the old asbestos pads. The initial "bite" is less, leading to a feeling that they may not be working properly. But push a bit harder and then they do work! Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Babs Posted July 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Thanks for your advice Ian, I have tried ''heavy'' braking and the wheels locked up but did pull to the left!! may have to look at renewing the calipers as well. Regards all Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzer Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Hi Babs Standard discs work just fine, I've used them for road and rally and never had any fade, just make sure your calipers and hoses and master cylinder are in good condition. One word of advice 'avoid green stuff pads like the plague' they work, but boy do they like to squeal under light braking, in all combinations, with the anti squeal fixing supplied/and or with anti squeal shims and lashings of copper slip, whatever you do to them the squeal will come back to haunt you. I've even seen chamfered edges filed into green stuff pads! by desperate owners. They should be marketed as 'squealers'... a set of squealers please. Stick with good quality mintex or ferodo middle of the road pads or NOS asbestos pads if you can get them. Cheers Darren Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Hi Darren, the 'green stuff' pads that you had that squealed, did you have to file/drill out the location pin holes to get them to fit. The early GS pads didn't fit the 4/4A very well and yes they did squeal. The later GS pads now fit properly and I have had no squeal at all. Also the metal backing on the later pads are slightly different (I think) Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 If both discs are in decent condition on both inside and outside, then pulling to the left tends to suggest a stuck/jammed piston on that side. Both my (disc-braked) TR2 and 4VC had a jammed piston when I bought them - I removed the caliper, devised a bridging arrangement and (in effect) jacked the piston against the chassis - the weight of the car soon shifted the piston and then I just worked it back and forth to get it completely free. Crude, but it worked. Thereafter, just use the brakes hard on occasion and the pistons should remain free. The reason I dislike disc brakes on the rear of lighter cars is that they are seldom used sufficiently to keep them free - the pistons on drum brakes have to move every time they are used. Those who use their small disc-braked Eurobox for shopping often find the car fails its MOT because a piston has jammed or the hinge mechanism (many have a single piston) has jammed - good business for garages! And drum brakes provide a much more powerful handbrake (except on the IRS TRs, where Triumph cocked it up!). Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Babs Posted July 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 If both discs are in decent condition on both inside and outside, then pulling to the left tends to suggest a stuck/jammed piston on that side. Both my (disc-braked) TR2 and 4VC had a jammed piston when I bought them - I removed the caliper, devised a bridging arrangement and (in effect) jacked the piston against the chassis - the weight of the car soon shifted the piston and then I just worked it back and forth to get it completely free. Crude, but it worked. Thereafter, just use the brakes hard on occasion and the pistons should remain free. The reason I dislike disc brakes on the rear of lighter cars is that they are seldom used sufficiently to keep them free - the pistons on drum brakes have to move every time they are used. Those who use their small disc-braked Eurobox for shopping often find the car fails its MOT because a piston has jammed or the hinge mechanism (many have a single piston) has jammed - good business for garages! And drum brakes provide a much more powerful handbrake (except on the IRS TRs, where Triumph cocked it up!). Ian Cornish IAN, I AM GLAD YOU MADE THE COMMENT ABOUT IRS TR'S HANDBRAKE BEING POOR AS MY 4A'S HANDBRAKE HAS NEVER BEEN VERY GOOD EVEN WITH NEW SHOES NEW CABLE ALWAYS HAD PROBLEMS ON HILL STARTS THE ADJUSTMENT OF THE SHOES SEEMS TO BE HIT AND MISS I WILL PICK UP SOME NEW ADJUSTERS AT THE SHOW SEE IF THAT HELPS. REGARDS LEE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 There are extension arms available for the operating levers at the backplate of IRS TRs - I believe they help (no personal experience, as I have a proper axle!). Try Revington (the Manager, Alan, actually) - he could probably bring a set to Malvern if you make contact on Monday or Tuesday. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzer Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Hi Roger I'm still using the green stuff pads and they are the later type... and they do work, just from time to time they squeal like there is no tomorrow. Not a performance issue... only under light application... driven in anger they're silent. Cheers Darren Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Hi Darren, you've found the answer - your going too slow Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
North London Mike Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Late in on this one guys............. Standard everything is just fine for road work and also for the occasional track day (takes ten lap sessions in its stride) Green pads are great, no squeal ................so unless you're doing a race series, save your money Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Badfrog Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Hi all, The easy way out: standard discs, Mintex pads, braided hoses, Mastervac, DOT 5.1. Spend the money elsewhere, like on good headlamps for example: fast driving at night can be a horrendous experience when entrusting your life to Lucas. Badfrog, shortsighted, too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 If working on the calipers and checking the hoses doesn't sort out your problem of pulling to one side, check that the loading on each front wheel is roughly the same. If one wheel is significantly more lightly loaded than the other the car will pull to that side under heavy braking. It happened to me after I fitted new spring cushions on the rear to correct the ride height. You can adjust the loading by buying thicker cushions for the affected wheel from Revingtons. Horse Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smokey Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Re having your brakes pull to one side, I'd like to convey my experience. It took me a long time to figure it out, but I noticed that the disc on the left side had the normal wear ridge, but the one on the right did not, so I assumed the right disc was newer. On closer examination, I discovered that the caliper mounting bracket on the right side was incorrect. Mine is an early TR4 with the TR3-type calipers, and someone had used a later caliper bracket on that side, which positioned the early caliper further out radially - there was actually less swept area on that side. The car thus pulled to the right. Babs, this is unlikely to be your problem, but I thought I would mention it just in case. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidgsmith Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hi Babs Standard discs work just fine, I've used them for road and rally and never had any fade, just make sure your calipers and hoses and master cylinder are in good condition. One word of advice 'avoid green stuff pads like the plague' they work, but boy do they like to squeal under light braking, in all combinations, with the anti squeal fixing supplied/and or with anti squeal shims and lashings of copper slip, whatever you do to them the squeal will come back to haunt you. I've even seen chamfered edges filed into green stuff pads! by desperate owners. They should be marketed as 'squealers'... a set of squealers please. Stick with good quality mintex or ferodo middle of the road pads or NOS asbestos pads if you can get them. Cheers Darren Where is the best place to find normal Mintex or Ferodo without going down the "race" route? autojumbles? Any suggestions Quote Link to post Share on other sites
petetr4 Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Where is the best place to find normal Mintex or Ferodo without going down the "race" route? autojumbles?Any suggestions Hi try Revington tr part no RTR4071-09,these are genuine mintex pads. hope this helps as they work fine in my 4. cheers pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hi David, genuine Mintex pads appear regularly on ebay at a reasonable price, Ferodo less often. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 There are extension arms available for the operating levers at the backplate of IRS TRs Try Revington These are mentioned in the Williams book. I called Revington just now, they don't currently supply them, alas, I think it remains a DIY thing. Ivor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 These are mentioned in the Williams book. I called Revington just now, they don't currently supply them, alas, I think it remains a DIY thing. Given the number of people complaining about the TR4-6 handbrake, I don't understand why some enterprising supplier or owner hasn't manufactured a batch. I'm sure they would sell well at Malvern or on eBay. This is a problem I still have to solve on Lynda's TR4A. I can just about get the handrake on enough one-handed to hold it on a gentle slope, but wouldn't risk it on a hill. Lynda can't even get past the first click! [And yes, the brakes are correctly adjusted and working extremely well in all other respects. We just need more leverage, and the William's solution seems the simplest and most easily returned to standard if required.] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Given the number of people complaining about the TR4-6 handbrake, I don't understand why some enterprising supplier or owner hasn't manufactured a batch. I'm sure they would sell well at Malvern or on eBay. This is a problem I still have to solve on Lynda's TR4A. I can just about get the handrake on enough one-handed to hold it on a gentle slope, but wouldn't risk it on a hill. Lynda can't even get past the first click! [And yes, the brakes are correctly adjusted and working extremely well in all other respects. We just need more leverage, and the William's solution seems the simplest and most easily returned to standard if required.] New cables made a huge difference to my 6. I oiled them through with engine oil before fitting, it took a long time and a lot of oil. Before the cables were fitted, well, you know at Prescott, the marshalling area where all the cars were gathered in line abreast before the run up the hill, it slopes very slightly, perhaps you didn't notice? Well, the handbrake wouldn't hold on that slope. Would be even better if the cables were fitted with grease nipples at each end like brake cables of yore. I expect Speedy Cables could make some up to that spec. On my 'list' is to make some rear lever extenders. Question is how far to extend, given that longer levers mean more travel. Also, it would increase the misalignment/bend at the rear end of the brake cables. A winter fiddling job I think. Ivor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidgsmith Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Hi David, genuine Mintex pads appear regularly on ebay at a reasonable price, Ferodo less often. Cheers, Alec Hi Alec, like these on Ebay? Item number 200322483423 Thanks David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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