Geoff359 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I'm about to embark on a bare metal restoration of the body of my TR4 (ex Californian, so it's not too bad) Question is how do I stop the panels already bare metalled from going rusty while I'm preparing those with paint still on them? Sand blasting the whole lot is not an option as it ripples the panels (panel edges and tub would be OK) and ideally I would like to get it chemically dipped, but because of my location, it's not an option (unless someone knows of a chemical dipper near me!). So any advice would be warmly welcomed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodri Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I brushed on a coat of Bodaprimer, or similar, like a red oxide paint from Halfords. Don't put it on too thickly as it takes forever to dry and you will probably sand most of it off when you come to do the respray proper. My Bondaprimered panels have survived, albeit in a damp garage, for two years or so with no trace of rusting. I think Hammerite may make a similar red primer. Rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Yep Bondaprime is absolutely the best for long term protection. I use a large amount for rust protection not only during storage but also under all types of finishes. I keep a small touch up gun full and apply as soon as any metal repairs are finished. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Yep Bondaprime is absolutely the best for long term protection. Maybe Bondaprimer is different now, but I recall having enormous problems with wrinkling when I sprayed cellulose on top. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodri Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Alan, you are right with cellulose, I found that it needs to be put on thinly and allowed to dry- don't slap it on or it won't dry thoroughly. That seems to be the problem with the wrinkling. Having said that, I rubbed nearly all of it off preparing the car for spraying, and used 2 pack without a wrinkling problem, the car and me ! Rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I did exactly as Stuart suggest and sprayed a coat of Bondaprimer over everything as soon as I had finished it. Then when I was ready I started spraying cellulose on top - no problems apart from a couple of areas where the base metal hadn't been properly cleaned - my fault, I was skimping because it was up underneath the front scuttle behind where the dash will be. Mind you, the Bondaprimer had had plenty of time to cure/dry. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) If you thin the Bondaprime with standard(or cheap as we used to call it in the trade) thinners down to about 60% primer and 40% thinner then spray fairly dry you can paint "Wet on wet"with celly primer or top coat for brackets/fixings etc to cut down on time without any problems. The reactions usually occur when using it pretty much neat as its makeup seems to be akin to synthetic which is always problematical to overcoat with anything other than itself. To get over any unknown substrate reacting a thinned coat of 2pack lacquer with a drop of "Flowrite" anti silicon will pretty much seal off anything nasty. Although if SBF has been used on the car originally and any has been spilt on the previous paint layers then its very difficult to get over the resulting "silicones." I have even had to use Flowrite in the Bondaprime on panels that have been blasted where they have been SBF contaminated. Stuart. Edited June 5, 2009 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Respectfully differing with the prior advice, I recommend treating all bare metal with a phosphoric acid preparation. You can then store the panels in a humid environment for as long as you like ( months ) with no rusting. Further, any microscopic cracks in the finish will never cause a paint failure in the future. The product to use here in the 'States is " Triple Etch ". Looks like water, brushes on and is rinsed off after 2 minutes. Dulls the surface but otherwise leaves no trace. I had stone chips and other petty losses on the finish over 100,000 miles and 24 years. None ever proceeded to rust, thanks to this measure. Needless to say, I repeated the drill on its next makeover http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp84/im...15L9-6-8001.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Respectfully differing with the prior advice, I recommend treating all bare metal with a phosphoric acid preparation. You can then store the panels in a humid environment for as long as you like ( months ) with no rusting. Further, any microscopic cracks in the finish will never cause a paint failure in the future. The product to use here in the 'States is " Triple Etch ". Looks like water, brushes on and is rinsed off after 2 minutes. Dulls the surface but otherwise leaves no trace. I had stone chips and other petty losses on the finish over 100,000 miles and 24 years. None ever proceeded to rust, thanks to this measure. Needless to say, I repeated the drill on its next makeover http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp84/im...15L9-6-8001.jpg You do have to be careful with the choice of bare metal prep products as some of them wont take an etch primer over them and the primer will just peel off. This US forum has a wealth of information on choice of preparations. BA Auto body forum Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff359 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 A big thank you to those people who replied. I now have plenty of advice to continue. Thank you again. Geoff M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reinaldo Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Geoff, The pics I have done for the restoration of my T4RA might be usefull for you: http://picasaweb.google.com/rmorilha/Refor...feat=directlink Good luck with your project! Reinaldo ======================================================== I'm about to embark on a bare metal restoration of the body of my TR4 (ex Californian, so it's not too bad) Question is how do I stop the panels already bare metalled from going rusty while I'm preparing those with paint still on them? Sand blasting the whole lot is not an option as it ripples the panels (panel edges and tub would be OK) and ideally I would like to get it chemically dipped, but because of my location, it's not an option (unless someone knows of a chemical dipper near me!). So any advice would be warmly welcomed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff359 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Geoff, The pics I have done for the restoration of my T4RA might be usefull for you: http://picasaweb.google.com/rmorilha/Refor...feat=directlink Good luck with your project! Reinaldo ======================================================== [/quote Nice looking car, Reinaldo. Pictures show the different stages very clearly. Hope mine turns out that well. Geoff M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Just how much of a worry is rippling? I've only sandblasted my boot lid and the scuttle air vent so far, (that's in addition to the tub which is now fully painted) but haven't noticed any problems. I get the primer on straight away, plus Canberra's dry air gives me plenty of leeway. I'm using about 80-90 psi for the blasting. The bloke across the road had his XK-140 body done by the local pro sandblaster and had no rippling problems. Is it a great worry, or do you think it's time I had my reading glasses renewed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 My experience has been that if you get it done by someone who understands old cars and is 'sympathetic' to how fragile or otherwise the panels are, then its no problem. If you don't check that first and give it to your local shot blaster, panels can come back bowed out of shape. I've done both! In other words - start them off with something small to check if they know what they are doing. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Problems with blasting usually occur do to poor technique as in the angle that the blast gun is to the surface and the length of time spent on any given area. Experienced operators blast at a low angle to the panel and move quickly over the surface doing light passes. Inexperienced blast straight on and keep going until each area is cleaned by which time the panel will be stretched beyond repair. Strip and dip is the way to go. Surface proccessing Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff359 Posted June 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I agree with you Stuart, that 'Strip & Dip' IS probaly the way to go, but I can only find 1 company in the Uk that does it, and that's almost 500 miles away from me! Geoff M P.S Unless someone knows differently................. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I agree with you Stuart, that 'Strip & Dip' IS probaly the way to go, but I can only find 1 company in the Uk that does it, and that's almost 500 miles away from me! Geoff M P.S Unless someone knows differently................. Unfortunately you are right they are the only ones. Certainly with a big enough tank! Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DustyM Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 You could try Soda Blasting it's supposed to be much kinder to the panels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 however the soda has to be washed off and out of the seams, and the water is likely to start the rust up again. C-22. Dave Connit's TR4A blog has a bit on the soda blasting he had done, and at least one forum member has had it done from memory. I'm plodding along with my garnet until disaster strikes, or until I get sick of sweeping it up and sieving it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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