Pogo Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Thought this may be of interest to some. Wednesday afternoon just popping out in my '6 in the glorious sun and I noticed that the steering wheel wasn't running straight as it always had. The next thing I know there was a clunk from the front n/s and the car dropped at the corner. The wheel locked and I skidded to a halt at the side of the road - about 20 yards. Fortunately I had just cleared some bends and was on a straight bit of road and I wasn't travelling too fast! I got out to find the trunnion had come apart. The suspension was rammed into the tyre (although the type isn't damaged really - just a bit of rubbing against the road) and that had locked it up. Luckily there was no damage to the wing. The best thing was that when I renovated the car a year or so ago, I put in plastic wheel arch liners. The wheel hit that and it stopped it going into the wing. If the wheel had gone further up, I am sure that the wing would have been bent. There is a scuff mark on the liner where it rubbed a bit, but nothing to worry about. The price of the wheel arch liners has been jsutified now by me not having to renew the wing and repaint! The AA relayed me home and two patrol men took more than an hour to get it off the truck and safely into my garage without doing any further damage. They were stars and went beyond the call of duty to help. I have written to the AA to compliment them. Next thing now is to rebuild my suspension. Anyone have any advice for things to look out for? I will do both sides now. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Millward Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Thought this may be of interest to some. Wednesday afternoon just popping out in my '6 in the glorious sun and I noticed that the steering wheel wasn't running straight as it always had. The next thing I know there was a clunk from the front n/s and the car dropped at the corner. The wheel locked and I skidded to a halt at the side of the road - about 20 yards. Fortunately I had just cleared some bends and was on a straight bit of road and I wasn't travelling too fast! I got out to find the trunnion had come apart. The suspension was rammed into the tyre (although the type isn't damaged really - just a bit of rubbing against the road) and that had locked it up. Luckily there was no damage to the wing. The best thing was that when I renovated the car a year or so ago, I put in plastic wheel arch liners. The wheel hit that and it stopped it going into the wing. If the wheel had gone further up, I am sure that the wing would have been bent. There is a scuff mark on the liner where it rubbed a bit, but nothing to worry about. The price of the wheel arch liners has been jsutified now by me not having to renew the wing and repaint! The AA relayed me home and two patrol men took more than an hour to get it off the truck and safely into my garage without doing any further damage. They were stars and went beyond the call of duty to help. I have written to the AA to compliment them. Next thing now is to rebuild my suspension. Anyone have any advice for things to look out for? I will do both sides now. Roger Hi Roger, I would be interested to know how the trunnion came apart. That would have been scary to say the least.. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pogo Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Hi Roger, I would be interested to know how the trunnion came apart. That would have been scary to say the least.. Tony Tony I have just been to pick up the bits I will need to rebuild it. I hope to get stuck in tomorrow morning and I will try to take some photos. I should then be able to see what happened. It wasn't particularly scary, although if I had been on a motorway going a bit quicker it may have been a different story! Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Thought this may be of interest to some. Wednesday afternoon just popping out in my '6 in the glorious sun and I noticed that the steering wheel wasn't running straight as it always had. The next thing I know there was a clunk from the front n/s and the car dropped at the corner. The wheel locked and I skidded to a halt at the side of the road - about 20 yards. Fortunately I had just cleared some bends and was on a straight bit of road and I wasn't travelling too fast! I got out to find the trunnion had come apart. The suspension was rammed into the tyre (although the type isn't damaged really - just a bit of rubbing against the road) and that had locked it up. Luckily there was no damage to the wing. The best thing was that when I renovated the car a year or so ago, I put in plastic wheel arch liners. The wheel hit that and it stopped it going into the wing. If the wheel had gone further up, I am sure that the wing would have been bent. There is a scuff mark on the liner where it rubbed a bit, but nothing to worry about. The price of the wheel arch liners has been jsutified now by me not having to renew the wing and repaint! The AA relayed me home and two patrol men took more than an hour to get it off the truck and safely into my garage without doing any further damage. They were stars and went beyond the call of duty to help. I have written to the AA to compliment them. Next thing now is to rebuild my suspension. Anyone have any advice for things to look out for? I will do both sides now. Roger Scary story !. These things are cast (what, bronze ?) so I'm very curious to see where it broke. They do have a seam, perhaps it wasnt cast properly and split or the weak area is probably where the pivot bolt goes through. Were these replaced during the rebuild ?. If so I would definitely do both sides if they were sourced from the same place. It wont be a big job if they were done in the last few years and the pivot bolts have not seized. Check the ball joints too while you have the pan jacked up and the spring tension is off them. Post some pictures when you get it off.. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pogo Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Scary story !. These things are cast (what, bronze ?) so I'm very curious to see where it broke. They do have a seam, perhaps it wasnt cast properly and split or the weak area is probably where the pivot bolt goes through. Were these replaced during the rebuild ?. If so I would definitely do both sides if they were sourced from the same place. It wont be a big job if they were done in the last few years and the pivot bolts have not seized. Check the ball joints too while you have the pan jacked up and the spring tension is off them. Post some pictures when you get it off.. Stan Hi Stan I think that the threads have stripped rather than the trunnion has broken. Sorry for the misunderstanding. When I said broke, I meant it was no longer attached to where it should be! The trunnions weren't replaced during the resto - it was mostly body and interior. I have new ones now and will do both sides as well as vertical links, ball joints and anti roll bar link (damaged where it scrapped along the road!) I will post pictures when I can. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 ....and anti roll bar link (damaged where it scrapped along the road!) Errrk While you're under there, if you think the weight of the car has been on the roll bar mount, check the (flimsy) front of the chassis where the radiator skid pan bolts on, make sure nothing has bent. There should be stout crush tubes in the end of the chassis leg. Ivor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) Hi Roger, didn't Pilkie have the same problem a couple of months ago. Heavens we're not having a plague of trunnions are we. Roger PS no it wasn't the trunnion it was a bracket - brain a bit slow today Edited April 24, 2009 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Hi Roger, didn't Pilkie have the same problem a couple of months ago. Heavens we're not having a plague of trunnions are we. Roger Regards Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jake_a Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 I had a trunnion go on me in a girlfriend's Spitfire 13 years ago, not a pleasant experience. Luckily I too was going slowly; the suspension embedded itself in the road, I dread to think what would happen if one went at speed. I replaced the trunnions on my TR6 15 years ago and am always paranoid about them going so each service/MOT I ask them to check and they tell me they are fine. A definate weak point on our cars................ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 They will usually only let go at low speed anyway, I had one go on an 1100 many many years ago, 20mph and just quietly slid ito the hedge! Its usually a product of years of no grease Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Trunnions let go, sooner or later, they jump out and you land bellyflop in the road. It's nothing new, trunnions have always done that. Lack of lubrication at some stage in their lives doesn't help, but eventually they'll do it regardless. Fair wear'n'tear. Panic ye not, it almost always happens at low speed. If it happens at high speed, you won't be here to worry about it anyway . . . . someone else's problem. They don't normally give much warning, if any - presumably it's a metal fatigue thing ? I've had one go on a TR6 the week after it was serviced and MoT'd, and I'd swear blind we checked it properly. That's life, sh*t happens, we all have to die one day. No point in worrying unnecessarily. If your number's up, it's up. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trfella Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Trunnions let go, sooner or later, they jump out and you land bellyflop in the road. It's nothing new, trunnions have always done that. Lack of lubrication at some stage in their lives doesn't help, but eventually they'll do it regardless. Fair wear'n'tear. Panic ye not, it almost always happens at low speed. If it happens at high speed, you won't be here to worry about it anyway . . . . someone else's problem. They don't normally give much warning, if any - presumably it's a metal fatigue thing ? I've had one go on a TR6 the week after it was serviced and MoT'd, and I'd swear blind we checked it properly. That's life, sh*t happens, we all have to die one day. No point in worrying unnecessarily. If your number's up, it's up. Cheers, Alec Not very good to hear!! Anyone want to buy a TR6? Strange... thought I posted this some hours earlier Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johncfull Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 These shots are from 1972. Trunnion let go at 70 mph, ended up off the road up an embankment. Fortunately it was the left side otherwise we might have gone into the oncoming traffic. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trfella Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Blimey! Personally after reading this, this kind of changes my perspective in driving a TR. With this now firmly in the back of my mind, an inherent defect that could cost you, your passengers, and/or a third party their lives doesn't quite gel with me. Let's just say that in this being fairly common I don't feel comfortable, and if I had known about this when looking at a TR, I would have looked else where. Sorry, but a low speed seperation is one thing, but on a motorway or NSL series of S bends... well, that is unacceptable. Sorry Alec, but this "when it's your time to go" doesn't wash with me. How can one drive one of these cars with the knowledge of this? I appreciate that failures happen on cars, but thankfully it is rare. It seems on a TR this is accepted amongst those who know about this problem? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) Blimey! Personally after reading this, this kind of changes my perspective in driving a TR. With this now firmly in the back of my mind, an inherent defect that could cost you, your passengers, and/or a third party their lives doesn't quite gel with me. Let's just say that in this being fairly common I don't feel comfortable, and if I had known about this when looking at a TR, I would have looked else where. Sorry, but a low speed seperation is one thing, but on a motorway or NSL series of S bends... well, that is unacceptable. Sorry Alec, but this "when it's your time to go" doesn't wash with me. How can one drive one of these cars with the knowledge of this? I appreciate that failures happen on cars, but thankfully it is rare. It seems on a TR this is accepted amongst those who know about this problem? John, Dont jump ship yet . I have owned my six 15 odd years, never had this problemo, or even known someone who has. So i dont think its the norm. If it was a recurrent problem i am sure the likes of Revington Tr umong others would have come up with a solution. Maybe i am wrong maybe not. I would just ensure they are regularly greased up. http://www.belchamber.org/techtrunn.html Cheers Guy Edited April 25, 2009 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Blimey! Personally after reading this, this kind of changes my perspective in driving a TR. With this now firmly in the back of my mind, an inherent defect that could cost you, your passengers, and/or a third party their lives doesn't quite gel with me. Let's just say that in this being fairly common I don't feel comfortable, and if I had known about this when looking at a TR, I would have looked else where. Sorry, but a low speed seperation is one thing, but on a motorway or NSL series of S bends... well, that is unacceptable. Sorry Alec, but this "when it's your time to go" doesn't wash with me. How can one drive one of these cars with the knowledge of this? I appreciate that failures happen on cars, but thankfully it is rare. It seems on a TR this is accepted amongst those who know about this problem? John, this is not one of those notorious failure modes and I would bet that you could trace the history of these failures back to inadequate maintenance at some point in the past. I pulled the trunnions off my 74 this winter and inspected them and the vertical links. No sign of wear. You are probably going to have a greater probability of getting T-boned at an intersection by a dimwit with a cell phone than plowing a field with your TR due to a failed trunnion. The overall safety of a perfect TR6-TR2 is another question altogether. Get out there and lube those trunnions and drive defensively... Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pogo Posted April 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Hi All Thanks for the replies I have just spent a few hours stripping both sides down and getting ready for rebuilding. I am not sure yet exactly what happened with my trunnion, but I suspect that the threads stripped in it dropped out. I need to clean all the bits up tomorrow to see what may have happened. The n/s one is still holding, but there is some movement in it when I took the vertical link off. I will be replacing both sides trunnion, ball joints etc. I have taken some photos and will try to upload them in the week. Regarding this being a recurrent problem, when it happened, I was on my way to see Carl at TR Trader. I phoned him to tell him I wouldn't be arriving and he came out to see if he could help. He said that he had never seen this happen before and had not heard of it happening to anyone he knew, so I would say that it is not that common. It certainly won't stop me enjoying my car once it is back on the road. I will however be keeping it lubricated as recommended. Pity I will miss driving it tomorrow for the FBHVC Drive It Day. This was going to be the first that I had the car on the road and was at home to do it - maybe next year! Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Hi Trfella, don't panic too much, these things do not fall apart every day of the week. However if you look at the arrangement of how it is all held together it is a fairly poor show. The road wheel is trying to pull the vertical link out of the trunnion and the spring/weight of the car is pulling the trunnion off the vertical link. The good thing is that it could fall to pieces when standing stationary. Logic would sugest that if you wanted to ensure it didn't fall to pieces then the vertical link grease hole could be tapped and a 'loose' fitting bolt and washer screwed in from below through the trunnion - but why!!!!! Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 The good thing is that it could fall to pieces when standing stationary. LOL. There's a ringing endorsement for the TR6 for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 When I was growing up in NZ in the 70s and 80s Trunnions going on Morris minors used to be quite common. They normally let go at very low speed on LH corners which is I quess something to do with increased stresses at lower speeds and turning the wheel, I think it was also something that could let go if you violently curbed the car. I think its a very rare occurance on a well maintained car that has not been curbed. If I were you TRFella and was really worried I would replace both trrunions so that you know they had never been stressed by hitting curbs etc and then make sure you follow the lubrication guidelines. Our cars are quite old so increased maintenance/vigillance is to be expected Cheers Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pogo Posted April 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) Here is a picture of the trunnion separated from the vertical link! When I stripped it all down, the trunnion screwed back into the link although it was a bit wobbly. I imagine that the threads inside the trunnion have worn over the years and something happened to just make it shake out. Anyway mostly stripped down now and just waiting or a couple of extra bits that I found were worn when I was working on it and then it will be back on the road. Hopefully by weekend so that I can get out and have my own little 'Drive It Day'. I have noticed that the bracket on the lower wishbone where the link attaches is slightly bent - I am replacing this. Also a picture inside the wheel arch to show how the liner saved the wing from the wheel! You can see the scuff on the plastic liner and just a small amount of rubber on the lip of the wing. Lucky break there which means the cost of getting back on the road is less than it could have been! Roger Edited April 27, 2009 by Pogo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TIMS Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Guys I remember speaking to Dave Pearson of Canley Classics about this problem? some 15 months ago. He has developed an alternative for the small chassis Triumph cars http://www.canleyclassics.com/products.asp...cle=catkit1.xml And advised that, as and when time was available he would develop the same for the big cars. His interest is in the big saloons but that is fine by us? Last I heard he was working on a prototype for his TR5 and he may have gone further. Perhaps if he could see interest from other than yours truly it might spurr him on? Regards Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jerrytr5 Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Let's not get over excited here. As has been stated before, this is not a common problem for the 'big' Triumphs. In fact it is a very rare problem. The small Triumphs (Spit/GT6/Herald) suffer from a similar but different issue where the vertical link snaps at the top of the trunnion. This is fairly common and is ofton said to be down to lack of maintenance which it very definitely is not - they are just not strong enough. TR vertical links are gargantuan in comparison. In nearly 30 years driving Triumph's my personal score of vertical link breakage is: TR: Nil Spit/GT6: 4 (3 at high speed, 1 at low, including one pair that were tuftrided at great expense). TR owners should not be overly concerned Jerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 When I was growing up in NZ in the 70s and 80s Trunnions going on Morris minors used to be quite common. They normally let go at very low speed on LH corners which is I quess something to do with increased stresses at lower speeds and turning the wheel Yes, the n/s trunnion went on my Minor Traveller years ago, when the wife was reversing it into the drive on full left lock. Wheel went flat on the pavement and I arrived home to find the car lying there like a stranded whale. Good point Jerry makes about it not being that common, it's easy to forget that on the Forum we predominantly see the problems rather than the thousands of cars doing hundreds of thousands of miles without the wheels falling off. And if it were a real problem it would have shown up seriously in the States with the much greater number of cars and wider tyres they tend to use. Occurs to me, can't remember the lube requirement for the Minor, but in the TR it probably doesn't help if some nincompoop has lubed the trunnion with grease in the past and clogged the oil ways. If one pumps paraffin or white spirit in there and leaves it a day or so, presumably it would clear out any old gumph? Ivor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Hi Ivor It seems a bit strange that most of the new trunnion's come with a grease nipple? Regards Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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