TR4 Steering rack - replace or rebuild?

[adriantr4]

Hi

 

 

I'm probably going to fit an exchange steering rack to my early TR4.

This is the simplest route - Revington has one in stock, or Moss birmingham will rebuild them.

 

I'll do the actual work in the summer - work commitments at present.

 

However the Moss catalogue (P136 in my copy of a few years ago) says that the only difference between the TR4 & the TR4a/6 rack is that the inner ball joint assemblies are different lengths. In conversation with Neil Revington himself he was describing a specific "vertical mount" rack for the TR4.

 

I know the mount points are are different, and I'm convinced Neil is correct.

 

However, for theoretical arguments sake, could I buy the 4a rack & fit the inner ball joint assemblies???

 

Any clues, and a definitve discussion on the merits of repairing/replacing entire worn steering rack assemblies gratefully received. [My inner ball joints are shot & the unit was old when fitted]

 

regards

Adrian & aged TR4

[ianc]

The early TR4s had a rack which was mounted on a pair of brackets rising vertically from the chassis, and I think I am correct in saying that the rack was bolted solid to these mounts i.e. no squidgy rubber (see Fig 6 on page 4.204 of Workshop Manual 510322). That is certainly the way the rack is mounted on the VC Rally cars - except that, because of the extreme conditions met in rallying, the Competition Dept added a pair of braces vertically downwards from the cross-tube to meet at the rack.

Later TR4s had the rack bolted down to the chassis, with rubber to cushion the system - and to build-in sponginess as the rubber deteriorated!

One can replace the rubber with solid mounts (kits are available from various suppliers).

I cannot say how (if at all) the racks differ.

Ian Cornish

[NickKerfoot]

Hi Adrian!

Side by side comparison will reveal all! Yes, the rack cases are different - the later one has a flange at either end to butt against the rubber mounts of the later car; the early ones do not. One flange is formed by part of the pinion housing ally casting, the other is a piece welded to the rack tube. These flanges will stop the later rack body from sitting centrally on the chassis and would need to be removed (dont ask!). Internally, the rack lengths I believe are the same, but the steering arms are longer - (1/2inch per side possibly) comparison of workshop manuals should give accurate details. This can raise the question of is there enough thread inside the track rod end???

Just for a bit more confusion, Herald/Spitfire range racks are also very similar...though I think the steering arms are longer still.

So, you "could" fit a later rack with longer steering arms but you would have to take a hack saw and grinder to the mounts on the rack.

However, if the correct one is available from someone reputable then that may well be the way forward(safety; warranty etc!)

 

Hope this is of help...

 

Nick

[Kiwifrog]

Adrian

 

The 4A rack steering arms are 5mm shorter either side, doesn't sound a problem on a 4 but you will never be able to set up the front wheel alignment correctly if you want any thread in the track rod ends. I am looking at replacing my rack as there is a bit of play in it. The TR shop is advertising new replacement racks for 95GBP which is the way I think I will go. The last time I replaced the rack it took about 4 hours but then I had to take it out again as it was a 4A rack which is why I know about the wheel alignment problem

 

Cheers

 

Alan

Edited April 21, 2009 by Kiwifrog

[Rhodri]

I found that the original vertical mount rack was in short supply, and Revington was the only place that had one, so I gritted my teeth and bought it. It had been rebuilt with a new pinion and bar amongst other things. To make things more difficult, I only had a LHD rack to exchange for the RHD one. I was pleased with the item, but I find that you have to pay for quality in this game!

 

Rod

[MikeF]

Hi

 

 

 

I just had my early 4 rack rebuilt and it took 16 weeks.

Seemed to me that whoever you first approach there are just one or two specialists who actually do the work. The time they take is the time and bears no resemblance to the time quoted by vendor.

 

The early 4 racks as said are mounted on two arms rising vertically from the chassis using solid metal brackets and U-bolts. Horizontal location is by a dowel located in the steering rack tube and into each bracket. Make sure you don't lose the dowels on dismantling - they are just little button sized objects!

 

So if you wanted to use a later rack you either upgrade the mounting brackets to the later spec or down grade the later rack with surgery on steering arms and drilling dowel holes, How easy is that?

Well I can answer partially: When my rack came back it had the later outer fitments and these had to be remade, basically cut to length and make new thread which was a local workshop job.

 

ps I found The Moss paper catalogue helpful as it explains the differences between rack types well, and I suggest you read it if you can.

 

 

 

Mike

[john minchin]

The main point of wear in a rack is the passenger side bush.

 

Change this £3 item which is available at many spare shops and you have your rack up and running again.

 

It worked for me.

 

It has the great benifit which is it is done by you so you know it is correctly. Add that to cheap and quick and Bingo !!!

[Tony Millward]

Hi Adrian,

 

I don't know if this will help but I overhauled my TR6 rack myself. I replaced all the bushes that wear and now it feels like a new rack. It's not that difficult (if I can do it anyone can... ). Give it a try, the bushes are cheap and you have nothing to lose.

 

cheers

 

Tony

[ianc]

Although the main point of wear may be in the bush on the passenger side, it's certainly not the only point.

I realise that a competition car will have been subjected to very harsh conditions, so the rack is likely to have suffered more wear. In my case, the obvious problem was in the knuckle joint on the passenger side, which was no longer spherical, so was sloppy in certain positions. However, when the rack returned from its rebuild, I could see that the original pinion (which was returned to me) had been in a pretty bad state, too. So I was very glad that I had gone for a complete rebuild - after all, it's a safety critical item.

Ian Cornish

[adriantr4]

My thanks to the contributors.

 

It seems Revington does not have any racks, rebuilt or exchanged. Nor does a few of the other suppliers I quizzed.

So: it seems I'm (or: we are all) stuck.

 

I cant put any time into this at present due to commitments, but I think my options are to get it rebuilt (I note the huge delay mentioned above) or try to do it myself. Revington didnt have all the parts; the inner-ball & arm part sits in a cup on the rack end, they have the inner joint but not the cup. Its the inner ball joint assembly which has wear on my car.

 

Hmmmm.....

 

I suppose I could buy a 4a rack and chop it? [This is what I seem to recall is on my car anyhow - hence its age/wear].

 

many regards

 

Adrian & tired TR4

[Rhodri]

Moss list the cup, I believe, part no 158732, but not the ball joint.

[Alec Pringle]

AAAhhh SSSooooo,

 

in other words, judging by the vein of this and other discussions . . . .

 

no problem to refit the interior with megabuck seats and lashings of cowhide trim

 

no problem to replace those ancient SUs with EFI

 

no problem to wallop the power up to bhp that would have won races way back when

 

no problem to fit telescopic rear shocks and disc brakes to match

 

 

but if you just want to be able to steer the damn car . . . .

 

for some mundane reason - like passing the MoT, so you can drive it

 

then you're up the proverbial creek and fresh out of paddles ?

 

 

Brings to mind an old ditty by the Incredible String Band

 

"Oh, you know all the words, and you sung all the notes,

But you never quite learned the song, she sang.

I can tell by the sadness in your eyes,

That you never quite learned the song."

 

 

Perhaps there's a niche market in trailers developing, so we can all tow TRs to gatherings and imagine what it was like when we could actually turn the wheels ?

 

Perhaps more profitable than making steering racks ?

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[woodward]

I recently rebuilt my TR4 rack. I replaced the ball joints, cups and springs, all of which I bought new from Victoria British in the US. I believe that you can also get them at The Roadster Factory - suggest to have a look at both these websites. FYI, The Roadster Factory generaly uses UK Moss part numbers.

 

Myles

[TR 2100]

AAAhhh SSSooooo,

in other words, judging by the vein of this and other discussions . . . .

no problem to refit the interior with megabuck seats and lashings of cowhide trim

no problem to replace those ancient SUs with EFI

no problem to wallop the power up to bhp that would have won races way back when

no problem to fit telescopic rear shocks and disc brakes to match

 

but if you just want to be able to steer the damn car . . . .

for some mundane reason - like passing the MoT, so you can drive it

then you're up the proverbial creek and fresh out of paddles ?

Brings to mind an old ditty by the Incredible String Band

 

"Oh, you know all the words, and you sung all the notes,

But you never quite learned the song, she sang.

I can tell by the sadness in your eyes,

That you never quite learned the song."

 

Perhaps there's a niche market in trailers developing, so we can all tow TRs to gatherings

and imagine what it was like when we could actually turn the wheels ?

 

Perhaps more profitable than making steering racks ?

Cheers,

Alec

 

Impeccable sauce !

 

AlanR

[Richard V]

Hi Adrian,

 

I don't know if this will help but I overhauled my TR6 rack myself. I replaced all the bushes that wear and now it feels like a new rack. It's not that difficult (if I can do it anyone can... ). Give it a try, the bushes are cheap and you have nothing to lose.

 

cheers

 

Tony

 

I agree, do the job yourself, it is really satisfying, and is not too difficult either.

 

All my parts came from Moss and if you read the strip/rebuild section of the manual carefully and label all shims as you dissasemble, you cant go wrong. Setting the preload on the pinnion needs the correct shims, and you need to make these up yourself as they are no longer available.

 

I re-freshed my steering column at the same time and now the steering is like new. It also looks the part with new boots, new greasable track rod ends and a coat of POR15.

 

Pics attached just after rack was stripped.

 

if you want more details let me know.

 

Cheers,

 

Richard.

[Kiwifrog]

Just a quick note on the subject now I have installed my reconditioned rack.

 

It has completely transformed the car, the steering is now light and precise almost modern. Before I replaced the rack the steering was a bit vague, I just put it down to being a 1960s car as I remember from my youth spent in cortinas viva's and other 60s porridge that you used to sort of suggest a direction you want to go and the car would sometimes follow. The recon rack in the 4 has eliminated all vagueness and made it a real pleasure to drive, I had already replaced the track rod ends the upper ball joints and installed nylon bushes.

 

The only problem is how will I keep my license as there is no way you can resist putting your foot down

 

I am lucky as the car is LHD so easier to find a rack

 

Cheers

 

Alan

[Badfrog]

The only problem is how will I keep my license as there is no way you can resist putting your foot down

Cheers

Alan

 

Alan,

 

As long as you drive on the right side, it should work.

Yet, I'm puzzled that you may drive faster because of a new rack. I never needed that kind of excuse.

Well then that may be why I am presently rebuilding Lady Ann.

 

Cheers,

 

Badfrog

[Kiwifrog]

Alan,

 

As long as you drive on the right side, it should work.

Yet, I'm puzzled that you may drive faster because of a new rack. I never needed that kind of excuse.

Well then that may be why I am presently rebuilding Lady Ann.

 

Cheers,

 

Badfrog

 

Badfrog

 

its much easier to go faster when the car is going where you want it to Apparently at just over 5000 RPM the car is traveling at 170KMH in non overdrive top, although as there are only Route nationals and motorways round here and no racetracks I could not confirm its true

 

Alan

[adriantr4]

Hi

 

Again, I'd like to thank everyone who posted, its been very helpful.

 

I'm going to have a shot at refurbishing my rack myself - looks like I can buy most, if not all, of the parts.

 

Does the pinion & rack proper wear very much - could I just spin the pinion 180 degress on & replace? A daft question?

 

Although my car is a '4, I'm pretty sure my rack is a '4A thats had a grinder applied to it. I'll try to replace as much as possible starting with the inner ball joint units. I note Ianc's comments about safety critical items.

 

Adrian

[Richard V]

Hi

 

Again, I'd like to thank everyone who posted, its been very helpful.

 

I'm going to have a shot at refurbishing my rack myself - looks like I can buy most, if not all, of the parts.

 

Does the pinion & rack proper wear very much - could I just spin the pinion 180 degress on & replace? A daft question?

 

Although my car is a '4, I'm pretty sure my rack is a '4A thats had a grinder applied to it. I'll try to replace as much as possible starting with the inner ball joint units. I note Ianc's comments about safety critical items.

 

Adrian

 

If you get stuck, send me a PM. I may have some spare shims which could be of use.

 

Richard.

[Tcheri]

Hi

 

Again, I'd like to thank everyone who posted, its been very helpful.

 

I'm going to have a shot at refurbishing my rack myself - looks like I can buy most, if not all, of the parts.

 

Does the pinion & rack proper wear very much - could I just spin the pinion 180 degress on & replace? A daft question?

 

Although my car is a '4, I'm pretty sure my rack is a '4A thats had a grinder applied to it. I'll try to replace as much as possible starting with the inner ball joint units. I note Ianc's comments about safety critical items.

 

Adrian

 

Hello,

 

I have exactly the same problem with my TR4 (early model) steering rack.

What was the solution you found ?

 

Thanks

 

Thierry

[richardix]

Hi,

 

Just have renewed my steering rack, because mine had play between the outer tube and inner steering rod. Checked prices for the complete unit and they vary to a max of 250 pounds. Bought it at TR shop London for 99 Pounds. Works fine, although the first time, the rack-pignon was tightened too much which resulted in stiff steering. The new rack looks a little different from the original one. It is maintenance free, according to the shop and has no possibility to fit the original grease nipple. Don't know what the life time is, but it works fine till now.

 

kind regards,

 

Richard