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Hi Pinky,

it is exactly as Pilkie and I have said - it is a connector block. Used to bring certain common wires together in a nice simple fashion. Depending on the age of your Alt and wiring harness it may have more or less wires. I use all 4 spades on my 4A with the Alt conversion.

 

Roger

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Hi Pinky,

it is exactly as Pilkie and I have said - it is a connector block. Used to bring certain common wires together in a nice simple fashion. Depending on the age of your Alt and wiring harness it may have more or less wires. I use all 4 spades on my 4A with the Alt conversion.

 

Roger

 

Hi all

Rodger I am not convinced. Dave having removed the regulator box on the 5 the wires was only half the size of those on the 6 ?so why it is a simple joint ? I think TT's got this one sussed

 

Neil

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The wiring on this connector block has nothing to do with a redundant regulator box,as the alternator has it built in!

The alternator described in the TR5/6 haynes manual is the TR5 one!!

It is solely a point where wires are joined and then power is fed into the fusebox to feed the systems mentioned!!

The loom is different on the 5 to cater for this! At least it is on the wiring diagrams ive got!!

As far as I can tell TR6's didnt have a seperate regulator control box,as I first thought!

Edited by PILKIE
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The wiring on this connector block has nothing to do with a redundant regulator box,as the alternator has it built in!

The alternator described in the TR5/6 haynes manual is the TR5 one!!

It is solely a point where wires are joined and then power is fed into the fusebox to feed the systems mentioned!!

The loom is different on the 5 to cater for this! At least it is on the wiring diagrams ive got!!

As far as I can tell TR6's didnt have a seperate regulator control box,as I first thought!

 

Dave

So on your car the small brown wire did what?

 

Neil

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As I mentioned in an earlier thread it came out of or into the alternator,as per the wiring diagram,as I believe an extra power feed. Not an ign wire as I first thought!

Most cars electrics have 2 feeds,1 from battery,and 1 from alternator. Sort of a failsafe!

As this circuit is independant from the main loom,it had to have a back up supply.

 

Plenty of cars have had the wiring messed with,and it looks like pinkys may well have been played with at some point, going by the non std blue wires,and crimped connections going into the block!

Do they still do what they were meant to?

Do they do something totally different?

The only way is to trace them back,as I did with mine to find out where they go and what they do!,do!!

Edited by PILKIE
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As I mentioned in an earlier thread it came out of the alternator,as per the wiring diagram,as I believe an extra power feed. Not an ign wire as I first thought!

Most cars electrics have 2 feeds,1 from battery,and 1 from alternator. Sort of a failsafe!

As this circuit is independant from the main loom,it had to have a back up supply.

 

Plenty of cars have had the wiring messed with,and it looks like pinkys may well have been played with at some point, going by the non std blue wires,and crimped connections going into the block!

Do they still do what they were meant to?

Do they do something totally different?

The only way is to trace them back,as I did with mine to find out where they go and what they do!,do!!

 

Hi Dave

Can you put back the pic of yours or better still a close up of the block

Neil

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Hi Neil,

not sure of the technicalities on the 6 wiring but if you convert a 2, 3, 4, 4A to alternator and you use the Revington kit you get this connector block to put all the regulator wires in the right place to ensure that the system functions correctly - charging, power etc.

 

It may be that the 5's and early 6's used a 4A loom but with no regulator (only a hunch) and needed to connect things out.

 

From Pinkies picture there is no need for such a dedicated connector but who knows who has been tampering in the past.

It is not a rectifier or diode pack just plastic and a bit of brass.

 

Roger

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Heres a pic of the area after I stripped it out for painting.

As far as I could tell, when it was rubbed down,there was no evidence of the underbonnet area being painted back in 85 when it was restored then!

There is another hole about 3" to the right of the top hole on the block.Not threaded.

This hole I would imagine is where a regulator would fit on the TR4/5's and is just a carry over from the panel pressing stage!!

And there are other redundant holes on panels for earlier cars fittings,not used on the 6.

Re RogerH comments below,I cannot see any reference to the connector block in the wiring diagrams I have for the 5! But there is a seperate regulator shown!

However the early 5's may have had the regulator,and the later ones the ACR alt with the connector block wiring serving a different function than that of the 6!

A production line upgrade so to speak,then sorted out properly for production of the 6!

The 6 has an ACR alternator,"some had delco!",so the wiring will be different as no regulator wiring would be present/required.

11.jpg

Edited by PILKIE
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Hi Neil, Pinky et al,

I've been Googling TR sales sites and have noticed that early 6's (69,70,71) and 5's appear to have the connector block whereas later 6's (74 75) don't

I'm sure we are dealing with a company strapped for cash using up old items in their stores.

The TR5 wiring harness would be pretty similar to the 6. If the connector was standard for the 5 due to ancient alternator (seperate regulator) then a crossover to the 6 is logical.

 

It's just a connector block.

 

Roger

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Hi Neil, Pinky et al,

I've been Googling TR sales sites and have noticed that early 6's (69,70,71) and 5's appear to have the connector block whereas later 6's (74 75) don't

I'm sure we are dealing with a company strapped for cash using up old items in their stores.

The TR5 wiring harness would be pretty similar to the 6. If the connector was standard for the 5 due to ancient alternator (seperate regulator) then a crossover to the 6 is logical.

 

It's just a connector block.

 

Roger

 

Hi Roger

 

The 5 never had the block as far as I know

 

Neil

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This is brilliant!

 

Countless posts on a thread all to do with the most simple and boring connector block...It really is nothing more complicated than that!

 

I am not a TR historian but have owned at least one of each model, over the years.

 

TR5s had a 15AC alternator with a separate regulator attached to the inner wing roughly in the same place as the connector block being discussed.

 

Neil is absolutely correct that a standard TR5 would never have had this connector block. It wasn't needed as the regulator was there!

 

Bear in mind that many if not all TR5s will have had alternators replaced by now, possibly with an ACR alternator to include the regulator. You may now find some form of connector in place of the regulator on TR5s.

 

TR6s had an ACR alternator with the regulator being built in to it. No separate regulator needed.

 

Guess what, Triumph needed to connect together the wires that used to both be attached to the regulator, hence the connector block.

 

Given the similarities between TR5 and TR6, it is possible that Triumph were using up wiring looms as they wouldn't want to waste money.

 

That's it really, nothing more complicated than that.

 

David

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I agree with David. I have the block shown in wiring diagrams up to 70/71, after that its a straight brown wire.It supplies a direct feed from the battery to the alternator and fuse block- a feed that doesn't go through the ignition switch.My guess is that someone drew in into the circuits for the original design and during a later design/cost cutting review it was found the block could be replaced by a simple connection to an existing wire.

 

The block has been removed from my '69 PI model.

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Quite right David,

 

The regulator (or control box) of the AC alternator was replaced by the connector block for ACR fitment.

 

At least some early 6s came with the AC alternator, and bear in mind that AC production continued for some considerable time after the introduction of the ACR range. When the 6 loom was designed, integrated ACR units were only just beginning to come on stream.

 

Triumph, like Rootes, retained the option of fitting AC alternators in the event of a lack of ACR supply - logical enough, when you consider the frequent industrial action and consequent supply interruptions of the time. Plus, early ACR alternators were notoriously unreliable, and in relatively short supply as warranty items - reversion to AC fitment was by no means uncommon, sometimes the only option..

 

The connector block was a standard Lucas component, used to tidily substitute for the regulator when an AC alternator was in time replaced by an ACR unit, not exclusive to TRs.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

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It should be!!

The reason for the thick brown wire means it designates it as a main live and not fed via a switch,so normally permanently live.

It feeds into the fuse box "via the connector" where it comes out as 2 purple wires to feed in my cars case,the o/d and horn via 2 relays!!

The power being fed into the battery and loom from an ACR alternator is regulated.

If you have the AC alt with a seperate regulator,if the power output of the alt does not go via the regulator,or there is an independent power take off from the alt "hot wired",then there is no controlled feed of power.

I have had recently on the rover,the internal regulator start to play up,and when it did gave a whacking great SCREECH/SURGE of power into the system that almost blew the lights,radio,all fuses! :blink:

Thankfully the internal surge protector cut in just in time,and I fixed it with an ACR overhaul kit for a tenner! Bought 2 so I have one for the TR just incase! ;)

Edited by PILKIE
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Hi Neil,

 

in the case of an AC alternator an unregulated supply which is then regulated by the control box. In the case of an ACR alternator, output is internally regulated and hence it's a regulated supply coming out. That's my understanding, but I'm quite prepared to be corrected by someone with greater electrical knowledge than my limited bit ! :D

 

As for cable thickness, I don't know why it differs. But I do recall a similar increase in cable size on Rootes Arrow range around 1969/70, and I think also on the Triumph 2000/2500 ranges at the same time. Early days for alternators, maybe the earlier, thinner, cable wasn't up to a malfunctioning alternator chucking out excess power ?

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

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Note in Roger William's book"How to improve the TR6" ,fig 13-5-3, shows the cabling to this block doubled -which is amongst his recommendations for upgrading the alternator and associated electrics( there is also an earth shown to the block- which could start a whole new discussion).

I don't think the cable size differences mean much. These cars are 40 years old and there are a lot of parts that that have been changed and may not be original.

 

Regards,

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