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Distributor advance / retarding


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Apart from the 26volts, which must be 13 ish, your coil connections look correct. I don't know what wire you had on the + side of your coil originally, but blue and white is normally a lighting wire, it should be white? The little earth wire inside has to screw onto the base plate to earth it. Try checking your blue/white wire with the voltmeter when you are churning it over on the starter- to make sure that it is live when starting, as opposed to being live only when you let go of the key.

 

How about a photo of the distributor with the cap off and the Petronix fitted?

 

Rod

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Hi All,

 

On the basis of my acclaimed 26 volts , I thought I better check again and low and behold it would help if I used the correct setting on the voltmetre ;)

 

As such confirmed correct readings are :

 

12.36 from blue / white wire feeding power to coil

 

12.15 from negative side of coil

 

when churning the engine over the 12.36 volts from the blue / white wire drops to 10.55 for as second and then goes back up to 12.36.

 

Would love to upload picture of dizzy but it wont let me as I've used up my allowance apparently for this thread

 

Thanks all

 

Jeremy

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Hi All,

 

On the basis of my acclaimed 26 volts , I thought I better check again and low and behold it would help if I used the correct setting on the voltmetre ;)

 

As such confirmed correct readings are :

 

12.36 from blue / white wire feeding power to coil

 

12.15 from negative side of coil

 

when churning the engine over the 12.36 volts from the blue / white wire drops to 10.55 for as second and then goes back up to 12.36.

 

Would love to upload picture of dizzy but it wont let me as I've used up my allowance apparently for this thread

 

Thanks all

 

 

Jeremy

 

Jeremy

 

I do not know of your particular electronic ignition system, however if you have supply to it on the low tension side it must be on the high tension i.e. rotor arm or cap . does the voltage on the neg side pulse when cranking?

 

Neil

Edited by ntc
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Hi All,

 

picture of the dizzy with pertronix installed. Thanks go to Rod for telling me how to manage the attachments. Learning lots of new stuff at the moment !

 

Could I also ask for clarification of what the traditional set up of wires to the coil should be if running normal points, just in case I switch back to normal points to see what happens.

 

Thanks

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Edited by jstone
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Hi All,

 

picture of the dizzy with pertronix installed. Thanks go to Rod for telling me how to manage the attachments. Learning lots of new stuff at the moment !

 

Could I also ask for clarification of what the traditional set up of wires to the coil should be if running normal points, just in case I switch back to normal points to see what happens.

 

Thanks

 

You will not need to if you answer my last ? and how are you connecting the volt meter on the neg side, you also have a repro rotor arm fitted

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Thanks NTC,

 

I'll check in the morning on the pulsing from the negative side ( I'm assuming it is the negative side of the coil you are talking about). Regarding how I am connecting the voltmeter to the coil, is there a specific way that will give accurate information ?

 

Many Thanks once again

 

Jeremy

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Thanks NTC,

 

I'll check in the morning on the pulsing from the negative side ( I'm assuming it is the negative side of the coil you are talking about). Regarding how I am connecting the voltmeter to the coil, is there a specific way that will give accurate information ?

 

Many Thanks once again

 

Jeremy

 

Jeremy

 

Neg feed from the coil ie the lead connected to it to black on your voltmeter red to batt + when cranking it should pulse on and off

 

Regards

Neil

Edited by ntc
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Hi Neil,

 

have tested the following as per the discussion yesterday :

 

Negative side of coil to red positive on battery - I get 12.6 v when ignition not on, when ignition on this drops to 0.6 v and also when the engine is turned over. There is no pulsing (i.e the display on the volt meter does not flash etc

 

I also tried negative lead from the pertronix to positive side of battery. I got 12.6 v without iginition on , but this dropped to 6.2 v when engine turned over. Again no pulsing though.

 

Thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Jeremy

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Sorry, thinking about the pulsing, the reading drops off when testing the negative side of the coil to battery at 0.6 v but I think this is the important one, when testing the negative lead of the pertronix I get a steady 6 volts constant with no falling off of the volt metre.

 

Thanks

 

Jeremy

Edited by jstone
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Jeremy.Just a thought.Check the voltage into the coil when the engine is turning over-6V is consistant with a supply through a ballast resistor then your voltmeter resistance ,not the 12Vstarting voltage that should be supplied to the coil when the starter solenoid comes in.Note my previous post on ballast resistor wiring will not apply to most cars.Tonight I had a close look the ballast resistor in my car, it is wired into the coil supply the whole time(meaning the coil feeds on 6V)-the coil is a giant finned yellow device that was apparently a popular option in the 1970's for reasons I can't fathom.I just had another look to confirm it and my wiring is unusual but I took the red supply to the Pertronix from the 12V supply into the ballast resistor.I've got a copy of Dan Masters wiring diagrams from, I think,this site a while ago.The ballast resistor wire is pink and white and the 12V feed for starting is yellow and white(not that this means much on 40 year old cars).

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Hi Mike, just tried the power to the coil when turning the engine over and I still get the 12 .9 Volts. So am I right in thinking there is no ballast resistor on my car ? I can't visually find one

 

Cheers

 

Jeremy

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Hi Jeremy,

It looks like you may not have a ballast resistor.The 12.9 V should at least get the ignition to fire. You are sure all the HT wiring is correct,particularly the wire between the distibutor and the coil?All I can suggest is check all the wiring and try again.I don't know enough about the internals of a Pertronix.

Regards,

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Hi All,

 

picture of the dizzy with pertronix installed. Thanks go to Rod for telling me how to manage the attachments. Learning lots of new stuff at the moment !

 

Could I also ask for clarification of what the traditional set up of wires to the coil should be if running normal points, just in case I switch back to normal points to see what happens.

 

Thanks

 

Like Neil I suspect the rotor arm too. I had one like this fail after 600 miles last year not least because probably a higher voltage is produced by the coil with Petronix.

 

Stan

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Jeremy,

If you haven't already done so, you should at least carefully check the rotor arm over thoroughly.Over the years I've had several fail due to cracking after I've disturbed the distributor top.Whenever I now take the top off the distributor I test run the engine after replacing it because I've had so many rotor failures.This is especially true if you have had trouble getting the distributor top to seat snugly recently.

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Jeremy,

If you haven't already done so, you should at least carefully check the rotor arm over thoroughly.Over the years I've had several fail due to cracking after I've disturbed the distributor top.Whenever I now take the top off the distributor I test run the engine after replacing it because I've had so many rotor failures.This is especially true if you have had trouble getting the distributor top to seat snugly recently.

 

Hi

The only problem is sometimes it looks perfect, it is the material that these cheap ones are made of if faulty with an uprated system 30000 volt go down to earth through the shaft and the car will not run.

 

Regards

Neil

Edited by ntc
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Jeremy,I don't know if this will help but I noticed that I've soldered,rather than crimped ,the joints on the LT side of my ignition system.This was probably because I had a problem with dry joints in the past.It may be worth checking the crimping or soldering the LT joints.

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Jeremy,I don't know if this will help but I noticed that I've soldered,rather than crimped ,the joints on the LT side of my ignition system.This was probably because I had a problem with dry joints in the past.It may be worth checking the crimping or soldering the LT joints.

 

That's interesting, my CP developed an increasing high RPM/load misfire on Saturday afternoon.

 

Dismantling the distributor I found the internal LT lead just wrapped around the lugs. Soldered that up.

 

I also noticed the centrifugal advance was siezed, quite a job to remove the cam, freed it and lubricated.

 

Misfire gone, for the moment.

 

Mike.

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Yes distributors are an item the modern car owner won't lament.Over 40 years ago I used to test the points and coil by removing the centre lead from the distributor and holding it with insulated pliers about a quarter of an inch from the block.You then got someone to crank the engine over and watched for a fat blue spark.If you got the spark the coil,its HT lead and the points were OK.You then looked at the rotor,distributor cap and its HT leads.I haven't done this on my TR6 when the points were installed and I have no idea if it will work with or damage a Pertronix Ignitor.

Might be worth a try if you reinstall the points.

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Hi all,

 

I have just ordered a new set of points, red rotor, condensor ect from the Distributor Doctor (who I have to say is a really helpful and knowledgable chap) and will be fitting these later this week to see if I can get the 6 firing again on the same set up prior to me breaking it.

 

Will let you all know how I get on as you have all been really helpful with the advice

 

Cheers

 

Jeremy

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Hi All, I returned to the points system, set the gap etc and guess what..............started first time on the button. Now need to sort the timing having messed that up :(

 

Cheers for all the help

 

Jeremy

 

Good news Jeremy guess the electronic one was faulty?

 

Neil

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Jeremy.That's good news.There's nothing wrong with points except the need to frequently clean and gap them then confirm the timing in a TR6.It's not the worst job in the world to do.I just got sick of having to do it every 1000 miles or so so I installed a Pertronix.I guess you will now have to decide which way to go.Regards.

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Hi All,

 

I would just like to say for a final time thank you all very very much for the advice and guidance. Without it I would not have got the TR6 back on the road and enjoyed the sunshine this lunch time.

 

Whilst I may have bought a Pertonix unit that does not actually work, on the upside I have learnt a lot about the iginition system in a week !

 

One last question and then I promise not go. I have set the timing and can not hear any pinking when under load so am thinking that I may not have advanced the timing enough. The car goes well and I can't feel any real dip in performance , but just want to make sure my stroke of luck getting the timing right is infact the case.

 

The question is how do you know when the timing has been set to the optimum advancement ? is it that past this you get backfiring and that it feels like you have a rev limiter on at certain loadings on the engine ?

 

I have smooth revs through out the acceleration band. Just want to make sure I am getting maximum power.

 

Thanks All

 

Jeremy

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Jeremy.My belief is that with a TR6 the engine power in maximized by advancing the timing as far as possible without pinging.I advance the timing until I start to hear pinging with the accelerator flat to the floor and the car accelerating.I have to establish the timing setting will start the pinging.Note back off the throttle once you hear it as it does have the potential to damage the engine.Make sure you have a tank full of fuel with the octane rating you intend to use.Then retard the ignition slightly until the pinging just disappears.The micrometer adjustment is fitted to the distributor to do this.d

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