1959 TR3S

[hoyt]

I'm seeking additional information on the 1959 TR3S, Triumph's entry in the Le Mans race of that that year.

 

The best information I have is in Graham Robson's "The Triumph TR's: A Collectors Guide", pages 57 and 58, as well a Robson and Langworth's "Triumph Cars: The Complete Story", pages 216-218.

 

I also have Special Interest Autos magazine, April 1980, with a brief description of the "TR-S" in a boxout on page 47. And somewhere I have a UK magazine featuring a fellow who "replicated" a TR3S for his own enjoyment. I attempted unsuccessfully to contact him.

 

I'm interested in details that are not included in the above referenced material including the special light on the driver-side wing, the rear axle and brakes and additional photos, especially of the interior.

 

Given that the three Triumph TR3S entries failed to finish that year, I understand the dearth of information published about them (let's keep quiet about the failures), but it must exist somewhere.

 

Why do I want to know? Besides general curiosity, I'm planning to build a lengthened and widened TR3 inspired somewhat by the mysterious TR3S and TR3 Beta (pointers to Beta information are appreciated as well). In addition to a few restorations done in the past, I have TS561L to restore and I want to do something different with a later-vintage, undistinguished TR3A.

 

Oh, and I recall a web log from a fellow who widened his TR3 a few years ago. Anybody have that link?

 

Thanks.

[tr3aproj]

I'm seeking additional information on the 1959 TR3S, Triumph's entry in the Le Mans race of that that year.

 

The best information I have is in Graham Robson's "The Triumph TR's: A Collectors Guide", pages 57 and 58, as well a Robson and Langworth's "Triumph Cars: The Complete Story", pages 216-218.

 

I also have Special Interest Autos magazine, April 1980, with a brief description of the "TR-S" in a boxout on page 47. And somewhere I have a UK magazine featuring a fellow who "replicated" a TR3S for his own enjoyment. I attempted unsuccessfully to contact him.

 

I'm interested in details that are not included in the above referenced material including the special light on the driver-side wing, the rear axle and brakes and additional photos, especially of the interior.

 

Given that the three Triumph TR3S entries failed to finish that year, I understand the dearth of information published about them (let's keep quiet about the failures), but it must exist somewhere.

 

Why do I want to know? Besides general curiosity, I'm planning to build a lengthened and widened TR3 inspired somewhat by the mysterious TR3S and TR3 Beta (pointers to Beta information are appreciated as well). In addition to a few restorations done in the past, I have TS561L to restore and I want to do something different with a later-vintage, undistinguished TR3A.

 

Oh, and I recall a web log from a fellow who widened his TR3 a few years ago. Anybody have that link?

 

Thanks.

The widened TR3 was built by a Randy Schultz and appeared in BritishV8. If you google widened TR3 it comes up, at least in the states it does.

Regards

[Graham Robson]

There's nothing mysterious about the TR3 'Beta' - it was merely a rushed/low-budget idea of matching the new TR4 chassis, complete with wider front and rear tracks, with a TR3A body shell in which front and rear wings/fenders had been widened to cover the re-positioned wheels,.

 

Two cars were built - I drove 'Black Beta' on many occasions when it was current - and Bill Piggott tells me that both cars survive to this day.

 

Why were they built ? In 1960 Standard-Triumph was in financial trouble, and though investment in new tooling for the revised TR4-type chassis had been released, it was thought that money could be saved by cancelling the still-un-approved 'Michelotti' TR4 body shell.

 

GRAHAM ROBSON

[vivdownunder]

G'day Hoyt,

 

I think the replica TR3S built in the UK many years ago by Glen Hewett is now in the States.

 

You might be able to track it down via a post on the British Car Forum, or through VTR.

 

It doesn't (or didn't) have a Sabrina motor of course.

 

I think the light on the rondel on the right front mudguard might have been just the standard issue Lucas number plate light.

 

As a suggestion, if you lengthen a TR4 chassis by 6" in front of where the diagonals meet the side rails, then split a TR3A body down the centre and widen it to suit, then you would have a very interesting car. Obviously you'll need to also lengthen the front guards, inner guards and bonnet. (These items were lightweight fibreglass on the TR3S).

 

I brought a TR4 many years back to do just that, and to fit a Rover V8, but work got in the way.

 

Regards,

 

Viv.

Edited February 4, 2009 by vivdownunder

[ianc]

Frédéric Reydellet's excellent "Les Triumph en Compétition - Tome 5" covers Triumph's Le Mans entries 1954-1962 and the "Sabrina" engine (and also Triumph's participation in the Tourist trophy, Mille Miglia, Reims & Sebring). It is A4 size, 256 pages, 315 photos and is available direct from Frédéric:

Razoux, 42170 Saint Just-Saint Rambert, France. Tel +33 (0) 4.77.52.13.77. Frédéric speaks good English and accepts Credit Card payment. When last I looked (November 2007), Tome 5 was about 56 Euros in Europe. I have all 6 of Frédéric's books, which are packed with high quality photos, many of which you will not have seen before. Most (not all) of the text is in French. Each Tome (volume) covers a differnet series of rallies and races, and in each Tome there are interviews with various drivers and others involved with the cars.

 

Glen Hewett (Protek, Abingdon) built a replica TRS some years ago - now sold to someone on the Continent or USA. Do NOT underestimate the enormous amount of work involved in profiling the front inner and outer wings, and those are not the only non-standard features - a real labour of love.

 

Ian Cornish

[jean]

Last year at the occasion of the LM Classic I spoke to Claude Dubois. He was one of the TR3S drivers at the 1959 LM race, ( nr 25, reg: XHP939 ) In his exellent book, which unfortunately is in french he states:

 

quote: The cars performed like a clock, and in spite of a fan blade having had punctured the radiator of car nr 26, we were not advised to stop in order to remove the stupid fan. I heard later on that a stubborn Triumph engineer had ordered that the cars should be fitted with cooling fans. Although Ken Richardson had advised the engineer that cooling fans are more appropriate for London taxis than for racing cars, the fan was retained. A few laps later our car suffered the same fate and we were positioned 1 lap before Nr27. Now the last remaining car Nr 27 was stopped to have the fan removed, but unfortunately it had to give up 1 hour before the race ended due to bearing problems: unquote

 

So without the cooling fans the TR3S could probably have been very successfull in the 59 LM, who knows

[TR 2100]

So without the cooling fans the TR3S could probably have been

very successfull in the 59 LM, who knows

 

I also recall seeing a photo of a TRS chassis, many years ago now,

and the whole chassis had been strengthened by the addition of a

shallow U-section welded to the bottom of the chassis. Why add the

weight on a race car designed to run on a flat circuit?

The fibreglass body was also very thick - thicker, I'm sure, than

would be required for a race car at Le Mans..

 

Following on from that theme (over-engineering) I'm sure the twin

cam engine could have taken a fair bit more modification, increasing

the power output. Maybe the team prize was all the factory was after.

 

AlanR

[richtr]

I have a TR Register Newsletter #29 dated Spring 1977 that has a photo of XHP940 on the cover. It must be a early photo as there are no numbers or Le Mans colors on the front. Inside on page 22 is an article written by Alan Robinson and he states: "As far as I know, none of the cars Survived, although the later TRS team was sold in the States. The engines would have certainly have been retrieved for the next year's team, and another found its way into the Conrero, a Michelotti styled GT coupe which Gram Robson should be reviewing in more detail in Classic Car before too long,"

 

Dean

[TR 2100]

I have a TR Register Newsletter #29 dated Spring 1977 that has a photo of XHP940 on the cover.

 

32 years ago. Ouch.

 

AlanR

[jean]

Please do not mix up the TR3S with the TRS,as they are different cars although both were powered by the Sabrina engine. As far as I remember all TRS survived, but there is only one drivable.

I had the chance to assist taking a Sabrina engine apart, a rather complex construction. The engine itself had some very week points, like the tandem SU's and a rather poor crankshaft design.

Sorry I'm not joking, her's myself in the only driveable ( as far as I know ) TRS

[Herald948]

 

As far as I remember all TRS survived, but there is only one drivable.

Charles Runyan, owner of The Roadster Factory in the USA, has two of the TRS cars. One is still fairly original and very driveable, although it currently has a TR4 engine in it while the "Sabrina" engine is being rebuilt.

[vivdownunder]

And Hoyt, I don't know how far you want to go with your TR3S project, but I have a pair of the DU6 dual 1.75" SU carbies that were fitted to the Sabrina (and Coventry Climax) engines. They were last used on a full race big six Healey about 35 years ago.

 

I've been told that only about 50 pairs were ever made, so they are as rare as the proverbial rocking horse manure.

 

They were going to be fitted to my TR3A, but I've now decided to leave the car standard, rather than cut out the inner guard for clearance.

 

So I can either mount these DU6's on a polished board as a wall trophy, or sell them. They are the later and best model, of about three iterations.

 

Needless to say they are worth a few dollars, but please PM me if you are interested.

 

Regards,

 

Viv.

[hoyt]

The widened TR3 was built by a Randy Schultz and appeared in BritishV8. If you google widened TR3 it comes up, at least in the states it does.

Regards

 

 

Thank you. Oddly, you post turns up in first place on Google! Here's the link to Randy Schultz's Triumph TR3 "Plus 4" Project as published in British V8 Magazine, Volume XVI Issue 1, May 2008 .

 

I appears that he never got a windscreen figured out. To me, the windshield of a Isuzu Trooper looks just about right and could be cut down to fit without much modification to the stanchions.

 

He put in just over 600 hours on the bodywork and used gas welding. Uggh! Give me a MIG wire-feed for sheet metal works any day.

 

I've also been thinking about cutting up the body in a different way, essentially cutting it in thirds. I'll try and contact him and see what he says.

 

I, too, prefer the small-mouth apron and have a TR3 example for the project.

 

As far a motive power, I'm undecided, but a small Red Ram Hemi would be nice. I've always believed a Weber carb'ed Jaguar V-12 was a thing of beauty. Just not a Chevy/Ford/Rover. Something different.

[hoyt]

And Hoyt, I don't know how far you want to go with your TR3S project, but Coventry Climax) engines.

 

Thanks, Viv. I'm not shooting for a replica, although a recreation of a "lost" racing car would be a fun project.

[jean]

Hoyt, I'm a little puzzelt with your TR3A commission nr, they do in no way follow any built year sequence. My TR3A TS37... I bought in 1963 was built in 58 and my 1960 TR3A is TS70....

I think there has been made quite a mismatch with cars and commission plates, whats not unusual these days

[unclepete]

Piccy of 939 and 940 not sure where, but think it is Le Mans 1959 however somebody may recognise the Esso Tower?

Now what about resurrecting one of those???

Cheers

Unc