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GTR4 Dove - What to pay?


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Hello all,

I have been lucky enough to be the owner of a TR6 PI for the last four or so years. I now find myself needing an extra (albeit small) seat! :unsure:

I have had Triumphs for the last 16 years and both my wife and I are keen to keep attending events in a Triumph of some sort. We also use the TR for non competitive rallys and this is something that I would like to do more of in future. (We also drive to Le Mans every year or so)!

 

So, I have a few choices:

 

1. Keep the TR6 and buy a small Triumph for family days e.g. Vitesse or Dolomite (nowhere to store it - but that is a secondary problem)!

 

Sell the TR6...

2. ...and buy a Stag (I quite like Stags but not as much as the TR family).

3. ...or buy a TR4 (always wanted a TR4 and am trying to convince myself I could make the optional rear seat work for a while, great for rallying)!

4. ...or buy a GTR4 which might be a bit more spacious, certainly more unique but I suspect much more expensive!? I cannot really find anything listed about what to pay. There is one listed on http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classi...php/carno/35077 but way outside of my price range!

 

So any help in making this decision is gratefully received! I should add, that there is no rush and I'm sure I should be looking at more important things (prams)?! To start with, what would I expect to pay for a usable GTR4?

Regards,

Michael.

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Hi Michael,

 

What's a GTR4 Dové ? A tintop TR4, with a roofline that looks like it was borrowed from a wheelbarrow. Rear seat capacity is small children only, even then they're close to bashing their heads on the tin roof, and it can't be a ragtop. It's not big on luggage space, as in all the clutter that modern kids need. However you look at it, the styling is less than elegant, even compared to a BGT, let alone a Harrington Alpine.

 

One way or another, it didn't, and doesn't, have an awful lot going for it to put it ahead of an ordinary TR4 in the desirability stakes. Except for the fact, surprise surprise, that few remain - hardly surprising really, there weren't that many buyers ready to pay a 20-30% premium for an ugy duckling, even in the early 60s. Logically it ought to be worth less than a TR4, but Dovés generally seem to command at least a modest premium over an equivalent 4 - owners tend to think they're worth a lot more . . . .

 

If it's just a question of having space for a nipper, then the BGT can do the same job for about one third the price, or less - OK it's an MG not a Triumph, but kids eat money and sometimes you have to compromise. Most of the time with little'uns !

 

Dolomites aren't too bad a bet, 1850 o/d for preference and practicality, or there's always the good old 2000/2500 in saloon or estate format - plenty of room for stuff, and a pretty good survival chance in an accident. I like the Vitesse, but a good one is a few grand now, and there aren't that many good ones. The much-maligned Acclaim wasn't a bad car either, a goodish Honda that should have had a Rover not a Triumph badge, there are the odd ones about in good nick, they cost peanuts to buy and to run, and they're a practical everyday shopping car.

 

The Stag is another matter entirely - potentially a great car, if only it had been developed properly. Nobody seems to love them, and a really good one is half the price of any TR in similar condition. They're just way out of fashion - I'd have loved one when our lads were little, but they were way out of our price bracket 20 years ago. Recently I was offered an absolute cracker - low mileage, original, 2 owners and full history, hard and soft tops, absolutely spot bollocks-on - and it sold eventually for just £5K. Sure, they're thirsty and not cheap to maintain, but how many miles per annum are you going to cover ? An equivalent Dové would have cost three times as much. That's a lot of fuel and servicing . . . .

 

So food for thought, and lots of headway for argument - as it happens I have a soft spot for the old Dové, I just think they're overrated. Rarity isn't everything, there's often a good reason for rarity . . .

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

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Hi Micheal

I believe so few of these Doves were made because Triumph very qiuckly realised what a mistake it was!

I would not have bought one then or now because i think they are plain ugly.

The only reason for the high asking price is because they are rare and that is not good enough for me.

there's no account for taste though.....

happy Xmas

John.

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Hi Micheal

I believe so few of these Doves were made because Triumph very qiuckly realised what a mistake it was!

I would not have bought one then or now because i think they are plain ugly.

The only reason for the high asking price is because they are rare and that is not good enough for me.

there's no account for taste though.....

happy Xmas

John.

 

The Dove conversion has no direct link to Triumph Company. Doves were a large Triumph dealer who saw potential sales for this kind of GT. Perhaps it kick started Triumph with the GT6, who knows? The conversion was carried out by Thomas Harrington, who were a highly respected coachbuilder in Hove Sussex. They were also responsible for the Harrington Sunbeam Alpine in it's various marks. Harrington was a family run firm quite willing to do all sorts of work. However, they had been Rootes agents since the thirties and in the early 1960s Robbins & Day (the Rootes dealers owned by the Rootes family) bought into the firm. They were less than impressed that Harrington had taken on conversions using a non Rootes base and leaned on Harrington heavily to stop doing the conversions. That is why they are so rare. The Harrington Alpine conversions tended to be a mixture of Sunbeam factory production cars which were supplied as complete vehicles and then went out to dealers, or cars which had been sold to a customer through one of Harrington's two Brighton garages and then sent back into the coachworks for conversion . There is a TR4A Dove in the TR Register and this falls outside the production batch of true Doves. It seems very likely that this was an owner who made a special request to Harrington who slipped it through away from prying eyes.

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Thanks for the replies - nice to get the feedback!

 

Alec, I'm sure you are right and the Dove offers little advantage over a standard TR4. I've never seen one in the flesh so have not been able to make a proper comparison. As for the looks, I'm undecided; it's a kind of 'so weird it's almost cool' look, (but then my company car is a one series BMW so my opinion is nearly always made void in these kind of conversations on principle)!

I am not anti MG but the B doesn't really do it for me, (or the Acclaim)! My main reservation with the Vitesse is that my first Triumph was a 13\60 which looking back, seemed very agricultural compared to the TR. However, getting one up to Road Rally spec. could be fun and I think they at least look good when slightly modded. The 2000 is a good idea; might be able to keep the TR6 if I got one at the right price too! I don't do many miles per year in the TR these days, so running costs not so much of an issue. Not sure this is so go good for a Stag engine though, I would think they might benefit from more regular use? I think they look great with the hard top on or roof up - just don't like the t-bar! At least they sound great all the time!

Oh well - all good food for thought! :rolleyes:

Regards,

Michael.

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Michael

 

My neighbour had a MGBGT - then a little one came on the scene... He soon discovered that the modern and required child seats do not fit in the back - if in the front his good lady cannot fit (very easily) in the back!

 

He now has a Stag! Seat belts can be relatively easily fitted in the rear (I think they even have the mounting all ready installed?), so now all can go out comfortably and safely - they even join in on our local TR outings!

 

Best regards for Christmas!

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Michael

 

My neighbour had a MGBGT - then a little one came on the scene... He soon discovered that the modern and required child seats do not fit in the back - if in the front his good lady cannot fit (very easily) in the back!

 

He now has a Stag! Seat belts can be relatively easily fitted in the rear (I think they even have the mounting all ready installed?), so now all can go out comfortably and safely - they even join in on our local TR outings!

 

Best regards for Christmas!

 

Yep, seems like everything is pointing at either a Stag or a 2000. At least with the 2000 I might be able to hang onto the TR6, but with limited time and no space, the Stag is probably the sensible compromise!

Cheers!

Michael.

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Hi Michael

 

We run a 2000 MK1 as well as the TR4 and the 2000 is a superb sporty drive and really practical.

 

The prices for a superb example (although difficult to find MK1) are a steal compared to the lovely but high priced Stag.

 

The 2000 has all the handling characteristics of a TR5 and with a few Chris Witor mods, they fly. You can also remove the bumpers, smooth out the mounting points, lower them, put 15" or larger wheels on and generally fast road/rally them without breaking the bank and the bizarre thing is being rare beast they are still less than the third of the price of a TR.

 

The editor of Classic & Sports car runs one I believe.

 

Here's a link to a nicely prepared 'down under' 2000 MK 1

 

http://www.triumphowners.com/209

 

Cheers

 

Darren

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Long time ago, when a TR3 driver's wife announced that she was expecting,

he refused to give up his (everyday) car, so he shopped around to find a

carrycot that would fit on the back seat.

 

She duly presented him with twins!

 

AlanR

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The Stag is another matter entirely - potentially a great car, if only it had been developed properly. Nobody seems to love them, and a really good one is half the price of any TR in similar condition.

 

Alec, I'm really surprised to hear that as I have always liked the Stag and thought it had some innovative features. It is still a car that you can drive long distances in comfort with a lot of room for carrying stuff and has several roof configuration options.

 

So it has a propensity to eat engines but are there other major flaws ?

 

Stan

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I like the Dove. There was a very nice grey example on the Lakes Tour. It won the 'Favourite car' vote on the last day. Mind you, it was parked right outside the pub and it was p....ng down :P

 

Ivor

 

Two-toneDove.jpg

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Hi,

 

The Dove is ugly and the Stag doesn't really do it. OK.

 

How come nobody pointed out the elegant solution of the 1800/2000 1948 Roadster? I'm sure kids fit in the dickey. All you have to do is have a double soft top custom-made for it. Way to go. Might be legal and insurance problems.

 

Finally, the ultimate Triumph for the family remains the 1937 Dolomite sedan.

http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/1246...mite_Photo.aspx

Costly beast, though. :blink:

 

Cheers,

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Recently I was offered an absolute cracker - low mileage, original, 2 owners and full history, hard and soft tops, absolutely spot bollocks-on - and it sold eventually for just £5K.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

 

Alec, If you get offered another one, please let me know , I have been looking for a really good stag for some time.

 

Regards.

 

Rex

Edited by Rex Wyer
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I to would go down the Triumph 2000 route-a white Mk1 with a matt black bonnet and minilites-loverly :P

 

The space in the back of a TR4 with a surrey top is surprising good however ;)

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FWIW 2000s and 2500s (saloons or estates) in even half-decent condition are even harder to find than TR4s. I've spent a lot of time searching for all three over the years. Conversely, Stags are available a-plenty and mostly in good nick and comparatively cheap (although not my cup of tea).

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If you haven't driven a Stag, go and find a nice one to test drive, I think you will be pleasantly surprised, up until a few weeks ago I owned a Stag and a TR6 so was able to drive them back to back. Whilst the Stag doesn't have the raw sports car feel of the TR6 it will hustle down a country lane with surprising pace and as mentioned above can be fitted with proper three point inertia reels in the back. And with power steering is much easier to use around town.

 

Oh and the sound......

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Hi Stan,

 

I think you misinterpreted my phrasing . . . . I like Stags, good cars, it's just a pity that they suffered more than most BL cars of the 70s when new from lack of quality control (for what was supposed to be a quality car) and silly minor failings. Plus BL made no real effort to develop the Stag, no sooner had it come into production than it's end was in view, or so it seemed at the time. A real waste, a fundamentally good car that could have been great.

 

It's another matter entirely from cheapo Dollies or Acclaims or suchlike smaller economical cars was what I meant !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

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Hi Stan,

 

I think you misinterpreted my phrasing . . . . I like Stags, good cars, it's just a pity that they suffered more than most BL cars of the 70s when new from lack of quality control (for what was supposed to be a quality car) and silly minor failings. Plus BL made no real effort to develop the Stag, no sooner had it come into production than it's end was in view, or so it seemed at the time. A real waste, a fundamentally good car that could have been great.

 

It's another matter entirely from cheapo Dollies or Acclaims or suchlike smaller economical cars was what I meant !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

 

Alec, it was the nobody seems to love them part. I'm not disputing that, just surprised as I was always a big fan of the Stag and I would have hoped they would have held up quite well. We have a couple in our club, one that the owners (Dave and MaryEllen) have had from new (on its 4th engine though..) and despite being a daily driver for several years including the New England winters it still looks and drives like new. I'm also a James Bond fan especially the early movies and always look forward to Diamonds Are Forever where the Stag makes a few appearances. So if I needed to replace or supplement the 6 with something with more passenger capacity and that was stylish, convertible and Triumph I'd go for the Stag.

 

Stan

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Michael , does your good lady drive ?

If so , we were faced with this 5 or 6 years ago so bought a TR7 to go with the 6 . It didnt cost a lot but meant we could go to club things or wherever in a TR ( al-be-it in two cars) . Obviously costs can get a bit much if your destination is far but we picked and chose where we went and this worked well for us for 2 or 3 years , the kids dont come so much now as they have grown . We certainly found it an easy and cheap solution to the problem .

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Moreover...

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C72498

14,870 miles from new, it says :blink:

 

And....

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C72490

29,000 from new, blimey where do they come from... :unsure:

Edited by 88V8
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Moreover...

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C72498

14,870 miles from new, it says :blink:

 

And....

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C72490

29,000 from new, blimey where do they come from... :unsure:

 

 

The MkII looks very nice indeed-I like white ;)

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Hi Michael,

 

that's one heck of a good looking 2500S from the photos. If it's as good in the metal, I could think of many worse ways to spend £5K on classic family transport. Offhand, come to that, I couldn't think of a better way. From personal experience, the V8 lady and I covered one heck of a lot of miles in a variety of big Triumph saloons, the 2500S was the best of the bunch by a country mile. If you need a hand to look over it, by all means give me a shout !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

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