Dave Herrod Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 FWIW, my local tyre fitter said he wasn't happy fitting tyres without tubes to my steel rims, I believe, on account of the shape of the edge of the rim. My tyres are Firestones and, so far, no problems with tubes in probably 15,000 miles. As previous posts have indicated, a tube would have to be used with wires anyway. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NickMorgan Posted September 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 OK. Decision made. No more procrastinating (I think!). I will go for the Sprint+ from Camskill as well. My local garage have already told me to get the tyres and they will fit them. If they are good enough for Don, then they are good enough for me! My concern was that when I first bought the TR it was fitted with cheapy Aurora tyres at less than £20 each. Within a year of ownership I spun the car on a wet corner and crashed heavily into a brick wall. Whether I can blame that on the tyres or my lack of driving skills, I don't know, but I certainly don't want to repeat the incident. I have never had inner tubes fitted in the three TRs I have had, all running on steel wheels, and have never had any problems. Thanks very much everyone for your input. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 (edited) I have heard that "tubeless" tyres can be used with wire wheels when they fit a rubber band (it must be like a large elastic rubber band) to cover the points where the ends of the wires intrude. When the tyre is inflated, this tight rubber band gets pressurized by the air to seal against all the wire ends. Nick - You have to come back after you try the new tyres and let us know what your impressions are. Edited September 4, 2008 by Don Elliott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Herald948 Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 I have heard that "tubeless" tyres can be used with wire wheels when they fit a rubber band (it must be like a large elastic rubber band) to cover the points where the ends of the wires intrude. When the tyre is inflated, this tight rubber band gets pressurized by the air to seal against all the wire ends....First I've heard that, and I'm not sure I'd want to trust something like that. Most wire wheels do have such a "band"; I'm pretty sure it's primarily to help keep the still-necessary inner tube from chafing on the spoke ends. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Down Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Ah, thanks. I hadn't spotted that. I don't think I have had the car over 110, but that is certainly a consideration. Last night I was going for the Sprint+, then this evening the Sprint Classic, but then decided the Sprint+ would be fine. Now I am uncertain again!!! Not related to Gordon Brown by any chance? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NickMorgan Posted September 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Not related to Gordon Brown by any chance? No. If I was I would have announced last month that I was thinking about buying a new TR, but then decided that new tyres would be sufficient! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lindatr4 Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) Having just treated the old darling to a brand new set of shiny chromies my attentions are naturally drawn to putting on some new rubber. Not keen on low profile following reports of a harder ride so I have decided to remain with the 80 profile. 165x15 being my choice. I have read in other forums that tubes should not be fitted in tubeless tyres. Now I would agree with that (I used to be a tyre fitter) but just try and find tube-type tyres nowadays. So far have found the following prices for the popular Vredesteins Sprint+ (Price for 4 tyres + Delivery+ VAT): mytyres.co.uk £154.04 (2% discount at present) tyretraders.com £150.77 camskill.co.uk £152 For obvious reasons I am drawn towards tyretraders but my hat off to mytyres for a more wide ranging choice of brands in my chosen size. Would welcome some advice on Firestone, Toyo and Kumho before making a final decision. Do Firestones warrant that extra dosh? Edited September 5, 2008 by lindatr4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 I have read in other forums that tubes should not be fitted in tubeless tyres. Now I would agree with that (I used to be a tyre fitter) but just try and find tube-type tyres nowadays. So I'm not alone in worrying about this (see post #6 in this thread). Hard enough finding tube-type tyres, but almost impossible to get sensible or consistent answers to what seems a fundamenatl question with major safety implications. I guess the only solution is to contact the tyre manufacturers, but I suspect they would not be too interested in committing themselves on subject for the benefit of what is a minority customer base. Not many modern cars use wire wheels nowadays. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NickMorgan Posted September 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 Nick - You have to come back after you try the new tyres and let us know what your impressions are. Don, I had the Vredestein Sprints fitted to the TR last week and I have just returned from 1250 mile trip on a rally in Ireland. The tyres are fantastic! The journey there was on wet roads and they showed no sign of not gripping on the twisty bits. They gripped beautifully for the autotests and the sidewalls seemed to be stonger than my old tyres so they didn't distort so much, giving less over-steer. ( Even managed to get the fastest time on three of the tests! ) When pulling away from junctions the rear inner tyre didn't loose traction as before. The steering is much lighter, yet more responsive. When I stopped after a long motorway drive the rubber on the tread actually felt a little sticky. All of this from a very good value tyre. I really can't believe that the tyres could make such a difference to the way the car drives. Thanks very much everyone for the advice. I dedicate my class win to you all!!! Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 Just before the flooded International I fitted Vredestein Sprint Classic to my TR3 and I was very impressed. Several emergency stops in up to 10 inches of water proved very successfull, although the speed was not very high, but in this situations you often drive in close formation. In fact it's the best tyre I had up to now for wet road driving. I fully agree the tyres are not suitable for track days but this is valid for all tyres in the 80-90 aspect ratio area, but anyhow they look very good on a TR3. When buying tyres it's good to make sure that they provide you with first choice rubber. Second choice can lead to problems whith balancing. Also realize that the wheel rims designed for tubeless tyres are different, TR wheels can take tubeless, but you might encounter problems at high speed cornering where the tyre could instantly deflate You will notice that the old wheels do not display the typical bulge on both sides, around and close to the rim, one of their tasks is to prevent the tyre to wander inwards at high sidewards loads Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trevor S Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 (edited) With regard to original steel wheels there was an excellent couple of articles on tyres in TR Action possibly a couple of years ago now which ran over two editions. The writer seemed very knowledgeable, and advised of the potential problem with tubless tyres on original steel 2-4a rims due to the rim profile as mentioned above. Whilst I am sure the comments were correct I have also run tubeless tyres (Firestones) without any inner tubes on my TR4 with steel wheels for around 10 years + now. Bearing in mind other comments on this thread where others have done similar without problems hopefully the rims can cope with normal driving and only race/rally style driving is possibly likely to cause a potential hazard. Having said that I took my 4 up Prescott Hill climb this year without problem and as I understand it Nick's new tyres have just competed OK on original rims. As has been said I don't know if you can now buy modern tyres of the size required designed to run with a tube. Seems however that I should be replacing my tyres soon due to age issues. My TR2 resto tyres are even older so I'd better get that Christmas list started early. Edited September 26, 2008 by Trevor S Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 To avoid problems with over-tightening of wheel nuts, I remove my steel wheels and take them in the boot of the Xantia for balancing. The wide rubber band running round the inside of the wire wheel is indeed there to prevent the inner tube chafing on the ends of the spokes - it's been done thus for about a century! TR6 5.5" steel wheels don't need tubes - the pressure remains steady for weeks on end. Can't speak for TR2/3/4 steel wheels. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Hi All, Having been reading this thread as it has developed over the past few weeks; my question is: What is the difference between a tyre designed for a tube and a tubeless tyre such that one will cause a blow out within 400 miles and the other won't - and presumably will last for several thousand miles? And as a supplementary question, is a Vredestein Sprint a Tubeless or a Tubed tyre? and as a supplementary, supplementary, is anyone out there running them on wire wheels - where as far as I was aware, there is no alternative to running with tubes. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Hi Ian, The great majority of tubeless tyres of traditional sizes will accept a tube. There are, apparently, exceptions to this rule - but I haven't come across one 'in the rubber'. By traditional size I mean aspect ratio of 70 or greater (75 and 80) - I haven't come across a tube for tyres of lower profile than 70. Vredestein Sprint Classic are fine with tubes, however the Vredestein site does not specifically mention Sprint+ and tubed fitment . . . but you could always ask them http://www.vredestein.com/Onlineadvies_Tec...sionID=23561823 There are 'tubeless' wire wheels available, but I've no personal experience of them. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 (edited) Absolutly right, dear Alec, a tube can be use in most tyres, if they are not less than 70 (%) tyres size. Very dangerous with lower sizes. The problem is the wheels : if you use a tube with a "tubeless" wheel, especially if it is an alloy wheel, you do this at your own risk..... For exemple, the small Citroën "AX", with 13" wheels : a tube in this kind of wheel will not last more than 50 km, especially on a motorway in the eat of a nice summer.... Have just bought a 57' TR3 yesterday from a early TR Register member, and she wear 155x15 tyres : is it small ? Can a 165x15 tyre be fit in the spare wheel "box", if correctly inflate ? Cheers, Chris. Edited October 5, 2008 by Chris59 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 Absolutly right, dear Alec, a tube can be use in most tyres, if they are not less than 70 (%) tyres size.Very dangerous with lower sizes. The problem is the wheels : if you use a tube with a "tubeless" wheel, especially if it is an alloy wheel, you do this at your own risk..... For exemple, the small Citroën "AX", with 13" wheels : a tube in this kind of wheel will not last more than 50 km, especially on a motorway in the eat of a nice summer.... Have just bought a 57' TR3 yesterday from a early TR Register member, and she wear 155x15 tyres : is it small ? Can a 165x15 tyre be fit in the spare wheel "box", if correctly inflate ? Cheers, Chris. Chris you would be better off with 165/15 on the car and use a 155 for a spare and dont forget to put a belt or a bit of rope around the spare when inserting it into the well as it does make it easier to get them out, especially if at anytime some thing heavy has been carried in the boot as the floor will have dropped Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 Thanks for sharing you experience Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 If you are lucky and your boot floor hasn't been too badly abused, you should be able to restore or increase the spare wheel clearance sufficiently with a scissor jack and a couple of pieces of wood to spread the load, to fit a 165. If it's still too tight, carry it with reduced pressure and a footpump for when you need it. Either way, Stuart is certainly right about fitting a belt or strap to pull it out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest colinTR2 Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Chris Having ensured that you can get the wheel into the well, in order to get it out again you will surely find it necessary to sit on the road with your feet on the outer well edges, and pull hard on the recommended strap (incidentally seat belt webbing is good because it is strong and thin). You should thus carry a water proof sheet of some sort to sit on because it will assuredly be raining when this change is necessary. Also the boot will be full, depressing the boot floor, because you had to sit on the bootlid to get it shut, making wheel removal even more difficult. Said sheet should obviously be packed on the top of boot contents, or better behind one of the seats. Best of luck Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 ChrisHaving ensured that you can get the wheel into the well, in order to get it out again you will surely find it necessary to sit on the road with your feet on the outer well edges, and pull hard on the recommended strap (incidentally seat belt webbing is good because it is strong and thin). You should thus carry a water proof sheet of some sort to sit on because it will assuredly be raining when this change is necessary. Also the boot will be full, depressing the boot floor, because you had to sit on the bootlid to get it shut, making wheel removal even more difficult. Said sheet should obviously be packed on the top of boot contents, or better behind one of the seats. Best of luck Colin Methinks youve been there before Colin!! Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 In 1990, when I finished the restoration of my 1958 TR3A, I bought 5 new Michelin 165 SR 15 tyres. The 5th tyre was for the spare wheel well. I'm now on my 3rd set of tyres and that spare has never been used. It still looks brand new. But due to the dating age of this spare, it will remain as my spare tyre. The point is, I can get it in and out if I need to, but in a little over 100,000 miles in 18 years, I have never had a puncture. Modern tyres and good roads help to eliminate the need for a spare. I know several sidescreen TR owners who have removed the spare to use the space for luggage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Hi, Thanks chaps for your replies ! I have try yesterday to rise the boot floor, with some result, by using the actual spare wheel as a "lever". I will let you know if a 165 tyre will fit in it asap. What about some soap on the tyre ? It will certainly be VERY funny if i use the spare wheel one day ..... Colin, Stuart is certainly right again, you must have been there before ! Cheers, Chris. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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