TR8 need and engine

[Chris59]

Hello,

 

I may buy a "federal" TR8 (low compression, 2 Stromberg) that need an engine rebuilt.

 

I would like to gain some power in the action, circa 200bhp at the rear wheels, but will retain the original engine block and carburettors.

 

First step will be to remove all this awfull unusefull canister, pipes, etc, as the catalyst exhaust (if still there), but what else do I need to do ?

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Chris.

 

PS : sorry for the "and" in the tittle, it should have been "an"

Edited August 31, 2008 by Chris59

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Chris,

 

200bhp at the wheels implies around 240+bhp at the flywheel, which is a lot of power from a Rover V8 - there aren't many V8 TRs putting out that sort of power, especially from 3.5 litres.

 

You can retain the block, most everything else will need improving or replacing is the simple answer - as for the carbs, whatever you do they aren't relevant, they won't flow more than maybe 160bhp at the flywheel at best.

 

Start by reading David Hardcastle's 2 Rover V8 books . . .

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Chris59]

Hi Alec,

I didn't realised that the power loss was so huge !

About carbs, the best I can do is to use SU's, they should allow more power, but I can't use something else, because it is simply out of law on this side of the Channel .

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Chris,

 

Why is it illegal to use another type of carburettor in France ?

 

The TR8 was produced with Stromberg carburettors or Lucas (Bosch) injection - the so-called 'Federal' system.

 

The Rover V8 engine in other applications used SU carbs, and the later Lucas EFI.

 

TR7V8, Rover P6 V8, Rover SD1 V8 were all homologated for competition use with Weber carbs, the 7V8 also for Pierburg injection.

 

Although never homologated in period, Holley or Edelbrock 4-barrel carburettors are a normal modification in the UK and the USA for tuned engines.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[marvmul]

Hello,

 

I may buy a "federal" TR8 (low compression, 2 Stromberg) that need an engine rebuilt.

 

I would like to gain some power in the action, circa 200bhp at the rear wheels, but will retain the original engine block and carburettors.

 

First step will be to remove all this awfull unusefull canister, pipes, etc, as the catalyst exhaust (if still there), but what else do I need to do ?

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Chris.

 

PS : sorry for the "and" in the tittle, it should have been "an"

David Hardcastle, in his book : 'Tuning the Rover V8 engines, is giving exactly the recipe for 'at least 200 bph at the wheels' (quoting David Hardcastle) :' the main investment is increasing the capacity to 3.9 litres on a secondhand Vitesse or EFI unit, staying with 9.75 compression ratio, and a good pair of cylinderheads. A vitesse camshaft can be retained for this power, a mild road cam will boost the power even further (beyond 200 bph at the wheels). Add a good tubular exhaust manifold (a pair of - )'.

D. Hardcastle doesn't mention wich carbs should be fitted for this, but interpreting the rest of chapter, this would need a 390cfm Holley 4 barrel carb on the standard Rover SU/Zenith manifold, wich is simply adapted by machining off the twin SU carb pent roof mountings off and a Holley mounting welded on and he is considering this standard manifold as very well designed and very effective. John Wolfe (Racing) does sell a dual port inlet manifold for mounting the single four barrel carb and this manifold is a bolt on replacement for the original standard Rover item.

A pair of standard Rover SU's (1.75") will restrict the flow at about 215 - 220 bph at the flywheel he says, so you would need a pair of 2" SU's from a jaguar or a Rover2000TC

when someone wants to stay by the simplest and cheapest option.

I'm wondering what bph at the wheels would you extract from a 3.5 litre engine, 9.75 compression ratio, Vitesse or Efi cylinderheads, tubulair exhaust manifold and a pair of

2" SU's (and eventually a mild road cam)? I suppose some forum members have answers or one could ask John Wolfe and other specialists.

PS : aren't all carbs allowed in France for this engine?

[Chris59]

Any alteration of a car homologated in France must be approved by the administration who has homologated the model.

 

Exemple : if you decide to change the size of tyres, modify the brake, replace an auto gearbox by a manual, put a different size of engine, change the exhaust (higher noise, etc..), cut the roof, .......

 

That's the theory.

 

Pratically, you can do a lot on your car, but :

- if, one day, you have a bad accident with your car, you may be not covered by your insurance : it is very rare, but it may happen .

exemple : swapping Stromberg vs Weber or Holley carbs, may be considered by your insurance as a tentative to modifying the car performances, and it isn't the kind of carbs that was on this model of car when it has been, originaly, approved.

 

- thousand's of laws exist to blame us : for example, earing nuts on wire wheels are forbidden (actually tolerate, but you still can have problems !) because they can hurt people, exhaust with a lateral output also (as on Cobra's), etc....

 

That's why any modification to add some bhp on this TR8 must be done IN the engine, not on the "easy to check" accessories (carbs...)

 

I will certainly use a pair of extractor tubular manifolds, it will be, hopefully, tolerate

 

Hope you understand what I try to explain, because my English is not really good enough , sorry.

 

PS : Marvmul, I am now sure that I MUST buy Mr Hardcastle book, will try to find it at Beaulieu autojumble.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Chris59

[cbr600]

When I converted my TR7 to V8 power some 12 years ago, I used Real Steal parts & recommendations following a series of power mods featured in Fast Car magazine.

 

These were based on a well prepared 3.5litre engine, 9.75:1 compression, cloyes roller chain, Typhoon camshaft, rhodes lifters, adjustable pushrods, stg2 heads, tubular manifolds (1 1/2 inch i think), edelbrock performer manifold & holley carb. All this resulted in 252bhp at the flywheel. Using an offenhauser 360 manifold to clear the TR7 bonnet would reduce this some 10bhp.

 

SU's are your restriction, though a well prepared engine should produce 200-220bhp at the flywheel I would think, & 3.9litres even more torque!

 

Real Steel - http://www.realsteel.co.uk/

[Chris59]

Thanks for the link, chap !

[Ragtag]

Any alteration of a car homologated in France must be approved by the administration who has homologated the model.

 

Hi Chris,

 

You must be the first Frenchman in history to worry about conforming to Rules and Regulations

 

Joking aside, I am surprised by your comments. My other hobby is offroading and I have competed in the Belgium National a couple of times. There is always a strong contingent of 4x4s from France and indeed there is a vibrant Land Rover enthusiasts club in France. Many of these road-going vehicles are seriously modified, (body lifts, suspension lifts, winches and engine changes). Are they all ignoring the laws you mention?

[Chris59]

No, not at all . But they do this at their own risk, as I said before.

They may never have any problem, BUT..........

 

PS : I also have a 85' Range Rover V8

[Ragtag]

PS : I also have a 85' Range Rover V8

 

Hi Chris,

 

I forgot to put this link in my other post. You may find it interesting

 

www.v8engines.com It should take you to the RPI Engineering site.

[rconnew]

Chris,

Finding a stock factory Efi TR8 isn't that difficult as quite a few were originally sold in Europe to US forces etc. They with the aid of a piggy back ecu can be easily modified for a lot more power while still looking completely standard. In fact remove a small box and a few few wires and you are back to standard. The one I used is made by Dastek http://www.dastek.co.uk/unichip.htm and after tuning up on a rolling road achieves around 200bhp.

 

Richard

[Chris59]

Too late for a TR8 "PI" !

 

I have bought the TR8 and a TR3 friday, my fleet keep growing

 

I will collect these cars in the following 2 weeks, and just try to imagine how they will look with my TR4 irs, 6 and 7 convertible.....

[Chris59]

Now both cars are in my garage .

 

The Tr8, who refused to start with the previous owner, as start easily after been trailed for 500 km : due to his awfull noise, I am now sure that she need an engine rebuilt......

 

My first job will be to replace the leacking fuel tank, remove the US federal canister, breathers, etc that are not absolutly necessary, replace booth radiators (air con, main cooling, etc), replace the exhaust system if she still have a catalyst converter, and it will be enough for "accessoiries".

 

About the engine itself, I will remove the sump asap and check the bearings .... I don't except a good new on this side.....

 

Cheers,

Chris.

[Chris59]

I hope that someone can help me :

 

I would like to remove the complete air injection system (bl....y air pump, pipes, air injectors, EGR valve, etc...) on the TR8.

 

Any advice about this ?

 

Cheers,

Chris.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Chris59

[malcolm]

Hi Chris. Richard Connew would be a good place to start for advice. I'll PM you his email so as not to put it up on here for the spammers!!

 

Malcolm.

[Chris59]

Thanks Malcolm, MP received.

 

I will contact him as soon as I will be back from holidays in the south of France

 

Cheers,

Chris.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Chris59

[Chris59]

Hello,

 

Some news about the TR8' engine, he (as gearbox) is out, and I have discover what was wrong with him : 2 of the hydraulic cam followers (correct term ?) and their associated cams on the camshaft are dead.

 

Now I need a camshaft and followers, may be more, as the next step is to remove the crankshaft from the engine block and check if he need a regrind or not.

 

I am not sure to remove the heads and pistons with conrods now, may will see if it's necessary after a few hundreds of miles with the car

 

I have definitively discard the air con, the complete federal "detox" system, catalyst converters, as the air induction system (pump and "injectors").

 

I will replace also all the front subframe and suspension bushes by polyurethane items, use 2 Spax nytrogen shock absorbers at the front, new steering column / fire wall poly bush, EBC brake pads set, goodridge brake hoses, a complete new exhaust system (stainless steel, with 4 boxes as original but without catalyst ), new 185x70x13 tyres, both new master cylinders (brake and clutch), new slave cylinder and flexi hose, new rear wheel cylinders and brake shoes, new boot lid gaz struts, all the gearbox extension bushes (again in polyurethane), new clutch kit, etc.....

As i have already bought most of these parts, it will bring me some joy during these holidays

 

I will also discard the Stromberg carbs and their automatic choke, and replace by a set of SD1 or Range Rover carbs with manual choke.

 

The main radiator has been rebuilt with a new core, and front subframe, strut legs, etc, will be sand blasted and sprayed in black.

 

Cheers from now,

 

Merry Christmas to you all,

 

Chris.

Edited December 25, 2008 by Chris59

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Chris,

 

You might as well whip the heads off and do the job properly . . . . the Rover V8 is an easy engine to work on, the parts are as cheap as chips. Just pull the engine out, strip it down, and sort it thoroughly. If you make a decent job of it, and change the oil regularly, you won't need to think abut the engine for another 100,000 miles.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Chris59]

Alec,

 

If i put the heads of, I may aswell replace them with heads without the holes for the "air" injectors, don't you think ?

 

And I have a pair of SD1 heads....

 

Are the pistons different on TR8 engine than on a SD1 ?

 

The compression ratio is lower on a TR8, I don't know if the difference came from the heads or the pistons.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

Edited December 25, 2008 by Chris59

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Chris,

 

see your PM . . .

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Chris59]

Thanks Alec,

Have replied to your PM

Cheers,

Chris.

[Chris59]

Hello dear Wedgies enthusiasts,

 

Some news about the engine of the TR 8 : heads off, crankshaft, camshaft, connecting rods and pistons also.

 

The crank don't seems too bad, but I will check it closer with all the necessary "micrometrics" tools, as the engine bores.

 

As write previously, the camshaft is dead, so it's time to choose to upgrade to "mild", or "fast road", or to keep it standard with a new camshaft (if available !).

 

As I keep the originals exhaust cast iron downpipes and Stromberg carbs, I am not sure that fast road is a good idea : any thought, please ?

 

4 valves collars on the left hand bank are "dirt black", so it's time to check all the valves and their guides.

 

But that's another history, who will begin next year .

 

Cheers from now,

 

Chris.

[Chris59]

Fisrt of all, happy new year !

 

About the 8, the engine bores are incredibly good, all they need is a set of new rings, as I don't want to replace the pistons : forget the 200bhp target, I may keep a low compression engine.

 

The bad new is that the crankshaft need a regrind

 

The valves guides need to be replaced, I will replace the valves aswell.

 

 

 

I have move down the back axle to remove the fuel tank, who was good, but the fuel pump (in tank) and gauge are dead.

 

As I already have a new TR7 fuel tank, I will buy a TR7 fuel gauge and use a new separate fuel pump with a fuel filter in line, where the battery is on a 7.

 

Next job is to spent some time (sand blasting, painting...) on the front subframe, suspensions links and arms, front or rear, etc, as I still haven't ordered any parts for the engine.

 

@ Malcolm, I have sent an email to Richard, but he haven't replied yet.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Chris,

 

If you're going to keep the old pistons, make sure you put good quality new rings on. There are regularly cheap piston sets of higher compression on UK ebay . . .

 

Similarly with the crank, make sure you get proper bearings not cheap Far East jobs. If the crank and valve guides are shot, probably so is the cam - lack of regular oil changing, Rover V8s don't like that. Stick with an ordinary cam if you're keeping the old pistons.

 

Someone like Real Steel supply decent rings, bearings etc, http://www.realsteel.co.uk/

although again new stuff is often on ebay, but careful of what brand.

 

Petrol tank - rusproof the top well before you refit it, that's where they always rot out. Fuel gauge may or may not be dead, sometimes just cleaning does the job. There are regularly new ones on ebay for £20 or so. Best place to put a pump is on the rear bulkhead, in front of the rear axle that is, Facet silver top will suffice. Then a decent filter/regulator such as a Filter King. Here's a firm who stock all the relevant . . . http://www.fuelsystem.co.uk/

 

Cheers,

 

Alec