foster461 Posted June 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Hi Stan. Forgive me if ive missed this bit,but!! As you say you have a spin on oil filter adaptor!,, do you also have connected to that an oil cooler? Because there is apparently an oil spin on adaptor that will not work if no cooler pipes are attached! It actually prevents the oil from being sucked up and into the filter, then out to the engine,as the blanking off bolts block it! I bought one at an autojumble for £5 thinking ive got a bargain!! But luckily found out that it was this type before fitting it!! Now I do I either invest in an oil cooler,or just leave it in my box of bits to sell off at Malvern! Dave Dave, I do have a spin on filter but it has been on there for at least 10 years and it has no provision for a cooler (or coolah as we say here in Boston). Regarding what you shoud do, based on my recent experience I would say if it aint broke, dont fix it.. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PILKIE Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Best of luck finding out what is wrong!! And Agreed!! I will sell it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
piman Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Hello stan, with the camshaft removed you will not get oil up the drilling to the head, as it cannot build up pressure at that point (camshaft rear journal) but it can be verified that that drilling is clear with either an airline or an oil can. Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dex Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Stan One good way that I used when starting my "dry" engine for the first time was to check the level on the dip stick and crank it for a few spins with the plugs out then re-check the level..it had gone down indicating the oil had gone somewhere. In total it took almost 2 mins before the level stabalised and I started to get pressure on the gauge. Good luck Dex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 Unless anyone can think of anything else I could be doing I'm inclined to put it back together and do over.. Hear, hear I'll bet $100 you have no problem - it's just that final anxious rite-of-passage [we all pay for the privilege of owning a sublime TR ] you're experiencing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 I suspect that the cam bearings you had installed may have been disloged or rotated so that the hole in them no longer aligns with the oilway. It may just be that the oil has taken some time to get up to the head - it doesn't run at full pressure like the main bearings - if you blow down the oilway from above does it flow easily? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted June 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 I suspect that the cam bearings you had installed may have been disloged or rotated so that the hole in them no longer aligns with the oilway. It may just be that the oil has taken some time to get up to the head - it doesn't run at full pressure like the main bearings - if you blow down the oilway from above does it flow easily? That was my first thought too Andy but with the cam removed I can see that the rear bearing hole is aligned with the oil passage in the block because I can drop a wire from the top of the block right into the rear bearing opening. Looking from the front the wire appears in the rear bearing opening at about 11 o clock. More spelunking today, will report back later.. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marvmul Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 That was my first thought too Andy but with the cam removed I can see that the rear bearing hole is aligned with the oil passage in the block because I can drop a wire from the top of the block right into the rear bearing opening. Looking from the front the wire appears in the rear bearing opening at about 11 o clock. More spelunking today, will report back later.. Stan The cam bearing has at least 2 openings, one to the top of the block and one to a main bearing of the crankshaft ane those 2 openings are not 180° degrees apart, so it can be fitted in the wrong orientation : front side of the bearing to the rear side of the block and vice versa. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR6 Poor Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 While you have the GP2 out, when you put it back in, you may want to look down in the lifter bores to check the lobe position. Also, you better be very careful who's lifters you are putting in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted June 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 While you have the GP2 out, when you put it back in, you may want to look down in the lifter bores to check the lobe position. Also, you better be very careful who's lifters you are putting in. All of the valve gear (cam, bearings, lifters, shortened pushrods, valve springs, valve guides, valve seals and roller rockers came for Goodparts so I expect it all to plug and play... Here's some late breaking news. After making a shaft that would allow me to spin the oil pump from a drill I thought I would test it. I engaged the pump and found that the oil pump was jammed. Dropped the oil pan, removed the pump wondering if just got hot and siezed or what and after hammering the shaft with some force to get the innards out we found that a tiny piece of metal was wedged between the vanes and the inner sleeve. Wind the clock back a few days to when I was installing the dizzy drive dog. My finger is the perfact size for sticking in the hole on the top of the drive dog to install, remove and adjust it. I remember doing just that on installation and found that at the bottom of that hole there was some sharp brittle bits of metal that were easily pried off the bottom of the hole (they were not loose, just very brittle and broke easily). I dont know why they were there but I recall that when I removed my finger from the hole there were some bits stuck to it. When I later removed the drive dog to examine it closer I was able to pry out a few more bits with a small screwdrive, some quite large. It seems that as I was installing the drive dog a tiny chip of this stuff fell into the oil pump and proceeded to jam it solid. I am pretty sure this is the reason why we got no oil to the head although it must have spun for a while or sprodically as I did see oil pressure registering on the guage. I'm about to get on a plane to Philly but I have the engine mostly re-assembled and will be checking for oil pressure before starting up this time. Should be making a second attempt next weekend. Thanks for all the ideas, sympathy and encouragement. Overall cost was just some time and a $100 for some new gaskets. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR6 Poor Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 I expected mine to be "plug and play" also, but, now, I have my cam and lifters out, less than 6k miles, cam destroyed, and some lifters destroyed, turns out, these days, its "plug and pray". Like I said, you should check the cam lobe position in relation to the lifter bores. You also expected to have oil pressure, now didn't you? Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR6BILL Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Yikes, this brings back visions of what I found in the bottom of my pan after I recently wiped out my GP2 cam (erased the #1 lobe). About 100 tiny shards of shiney metal, some as big as 2mm, in the bottom of the pan. I only found this out after the cam (and completely rebuilt head) had 5000 miles on them. The engine suddenly became very cantankerous and difficult to crank. I dropped the pan and peered upward with a strong flashlight to only find that that first lobe was flattened!Pulled everything down to see that that same lobe's tappet was horribly galled, and several other tappets were well on their way to same. Rebuilt with an S2 cam and redid the head. Part of my problem was inferior valve spring pressure. Fixed that as well, with 90lbs closed and 180lbs open at .400 lift. Which begs the question which came first, the chicken or the egg. The lifter or the cam or even the springs. There is a huge discussion over here about bad tappets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Here's some late breaking news. After making a shaft that would allow me to spin the oil pump from a drill I thought I would test it. I engaged the pump and found that the oil pump was jammed. Dropped the oil pan, removed the pump wondering if just got hot and siezed or what and after hammering the shaft with some force to get the innards out we found that a tiny piece of metal was wedged between the vanes and the inner sleeve. Wind the clock back a few days to when I was installing the dizzy drive dog. My finger is the perfact size for sticking in the hole on the top of the drive dog to install, remove and adjust it. I remember doing just that on installation and found that at the bottom of that hole there was some sharp brittle bits of metal that were easily pried off the bottom of the hole (they were not loose, just very brittle and broke easily). I dont know why they were there but I recall that when I removed my finger from the hole there were some bits stuck to it. When I later removed the drive dog to examine it closer I was able to pry out a few more bits with a small screwdrive, some quite large. It seems that as I was installing the drive dog a tiny chip of this stuff fell into the oil pump and proceeded to jam it solid. I am pretty sure this is the reason why we got no oil to the head although it must have spun for a while or sprodically as I did see oil pressure registering on the guage. I see I would have lost that bet... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted June 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 I see I would have lost that bet... Tom, I owed you $100 for all the advice. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willem Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Not that it would have prevented this problem. But are magnetic oil plugs available anyway ?? Or do you have to do your own metal and epoxy resin jobs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted June 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Not that it would have prevented this problem. But are magnetic oil plugs available anyway ?? Or do you have to do your own metal and epoxy resin jobs? Magnetic drain plugs are available, several on eBay at any time. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Hi Stan and Bill, it is worth bearing in mind that gaskets should be fitted "AR" (As Required) between dizzy and cam drive to ensure clearance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Not that it would have prevented this problem. But are magnetic oil plugs available anyway ?? Or do you have to do your own metal and epoxy resin jobs? Magnetic sump plug, may be used for gerabox (or diff. if you drill the casing) - £8 pt.No. 155660: http://www.canleyclassics.com/catalogue_fi...rtnumber=155660 John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted June 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Hi Stan and Bill, it is worth bearing in mind that gaskets should be fitted "AR" (As Required) between dizzy and cam drive to ensure clearance. Definately, there needs to be a few thou of clearance between the bottom of the dizzy drive pedastal and the top of the drive dog. Usually takes one or two of those paper gaskets. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted June 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Hi there.. here's where I am with this engine.. The system is all re-assembled with a new oil pump. I have not attempted to start it yet but I did spin the motor on the starter with the plugs out. I thought things were looking good as the oil pressure quickly built to 50lbs but then, even as the engine was still cranking, the oil pressure FELL. Since then even after repeated cranking on the starter for 30 second periods I am still only getting minor movement of the oil pressure guage. I'm paranoid about just letting it start but I'm at a loss as to what else I can do. The initial cranking was done with the oil filter filled with oil. I did try spinning the pump with a drill and all I succeeded in doing is filling up the dizzy pedestal cavity with no sign of oil coming out of the rockers. Open to suggestions.. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
piman Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Hello Stan, I would have a look at the oil pressure relief valve in case it has opened and stuck? Did you verify the oil ways in the head and the block top face to the camshaft drilling? Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willem Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Open to suggestions.. Stan Hi Stan , just a brain wave, if the filter was primed with oil b4 the first try, that oil might have caused the initial pressure indication. If the oil inlet screen is blocked or positioned wrong, oil is not reaching the pump. Willem Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted June 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Hello Stan, I would have a look at the oil pressure relief valve in case it has opened and stuck? Did you verify the oil ways in the head and the block top face to the camshaft drilling? Alec Alec, oil pressure relieve valve looks fine, certainly nothing stuck. Hi Stan , just a brain wave, if the filter was primed with oil b4 the first try, that oil might have caused the initial pressure indication.If the oil inlet screen is blocked or positioned wrong, oil is not reaching the pump. Willem Willem, yes it occured to me that the initial surge may have been from the full oil filter. The oil pump is my original pump (had about 10k miles on it and measured well within spec). I put that in after the previous pump got jammed up. One other data point. The lube I have in the sump was recommended by the machine shop that did the milling work. It is Joe Gibbs break in oil: http://shop.joegibbsracingoil.com/cat-34-1-11/BR.htm It is described as a 15W-50 oil and is just for cam break in. I wonder if that is playing a role also ? Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted June 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I think I have found the source of the current oil pressure problem. The shaft in the dizzy drive dog that drives the oil pump is rotating in the gear. The pin probably sheared when the oil pump died. Oh well, back to the machine shop. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willem Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 I think I have found the source of the current oil pressure problem. The shaft in the dizzy drive dog that drives the oil pump is rotating in the gear. The pin probably sheared when the oil pump died. Oh well, back to the machine shop. Stan Hi Stan, the good point is that you,ve found the cause. Cold mineral oil even of a low viscosity will (at normals temps) not have much effect on the initial oil press i think?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.