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no 6 plug//paint spayer advice

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Guest tobyholland

hi is it common for no 6 plug to foul remember reading about it somewhere,,if its going to run on five you can bet its no 6 down...

and can anyone advise me on a medioca compresor ,only want it to do odd panels ,but i think the one i have does not produce enough presire,,its a clarkes one with the tank as part of the frame..

thanks

toby

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In my experience, it’s not normal to foul to the extent that one or more cylinders go completely down. Triumph knew that feeding the air intake plenum from one end resulted in a slightly richer mixture on the rear cylinders, particularly no’s 5 & 6; they also concluded that it made no significance difference so chose to ignore it! There are several archive threads on this topic which describe some of the methods that have been adopted to improve the situation. Personally, I’ve never found fouling to be a problem on my 6 since I’ve had it & it runs on a completely standard air intake. Running a slightly hotter plug may help, have a read of this thread;

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index....68&hl=plugs

You do need to be sure what is actually causing the fouling, is it petrol or in fact oil which could indicate another problem!

 

Re the compressor; there are obviously many different makes available but it’s always worth spending a bit more & go for the highest output you can afford. Go for a separate belt driven unit rather than a direct coupled unit; belt drive will have a higher pressure output &, generally, higher capacity; get one with an air receiver of at least a 50 litres. I’ve had an Air Master Tiger 9/55 from Machine Mart for many years & used it throughout my restoration, spraying the whole car with a high pressure Devilbiss gun. This should have been less than successful as, in theory, the gun requires a much high air capacity than my compressor could deliver but I found it was fine as long as I let the receiver catch up in between passes. You should go for a minimum displacement of 8 cfm at 10 Bar & if I was replacing my unit, I would go for the Tiger 15/55; it’s physically the same size but packs a big punch for the small difference in price. Remember that a good quality gun is also just as (if not more) important to obtaining a quality finish as the compressor; high quality guns don’t come cheap but make a world of difference to the end result!

Edited by Richard Crawley

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Re Compressor: Richards advice is good , and I have heard the 15/55 is a good diy unit. The more cfm you can get the better. I would say you actually need to aim for 14 cfm for a decent spray gun. You will not find many spray guns that operated at 8cfm. Also if you want to run things like a mini blasting cabinet you will need 10 cfm +

 

Also check if it needs to be wired directly into the fuse box or can run off a 13A plug. Usually upto a 2hp motor can be plugged in on 13A.

 

Also before you go splashing out on spray guns etc , think what type of paint you will be using. I'm sure youare aware that 2 pack is being phased out and water based phased in.

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hi is it common for no 6 plug to foul remember reading about it somewhere,,if its going to run on five you can bet its no 6 down...

and can anyone advise me on a medioca compresor ,only want it to do odd panels ,but i think the one i have does not produce enough presire,,its a clarkes one with the tank as part of the frame..

thanks

toby

Hi had same problem of No6 plug fouling. Check if valves are opening and closing.On my 6 the lobes on cam shaft had worn due to poor oil feed A new cam shaft & followers and clearing oil ways fixed mine.Hope this helps.

Delboy

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Thoughts on compressors . . .

 

A decent sized unit with a good big tank is damn expensive, effectively immovable when installed, and takes a lot of electrical supply. Which might not be problem if your garage is next to the house, but it can be a different story if the garage is 50 yards down the garden like mine. Running another electrical feed right through the house and then 50 yds external, and then through the garages is not a five minute or a five pound job.

 

So I'm trying a different tack, having picked up a 200 litre air tank, only a few months old, for £100 on ebay.

 

Modest size compressor, which is at least portable enough to take round to the lock-up if needed as well, can run off the existing power supply without a drama. Use this via a non-return valve to fill the big secondary air tank, and tap the air tools from this secondary tank. We'll see if it pans out in due course !

 

Any thoughts on modest compressors for occasional useage ?

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

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Thoughts on compressors . . .

So I'm trying a different tack, having picked up a 200 litre air tank, only a few months old, for £100 on ebay.

Alec; that’s a pretty big receiver & a 2HP motor on single phase (13A) will drive a compressor of around 15 cfm displacement. This should easily give you enough for single usage of spraying, moderately air hungry tools & even blasting using a separate pressure pot. You can buy separate 2 stage compressor units & a motor but they will work out more expensive & if your not intending to run more than one air line at a time, I would go for a top end DIY compressor unit & feed your separate air receiver from that.

 

Having been more than satisfied with my Tiger 9/55 in the 18 odd years I’ve been abusing it, I would go for the Tiger 15/55 as a replacement. It should do all you want & with that additional 200 litre air receiver, you should be able to drive even the most demanding of air tools as long as you give it time to catch up occasionally. I proved this was feasible with my Devilbiss gun; the spec said I needed a FAD of around 10 CFM which equates to 13 CFM displacement but I managed without any problems using just a 9 cfm compressor & just a little thought to spraying technique!

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Hi Alec,

I think I have sorted your problem - my local garage is selling compressors for £2.50 with every purchase of £30 petrol. These are small (very very small) thus highly portable. They run off 12v - probably get away with a lemon and a copper & steel nail. If you turn it on on Monday morning it would probably be ready to run by Saturday but not necessarily the same month. To help things along you could get 4 of these little devils and parallel them up thus bringing the compresor into use in weeks rather than months.

I hope this helps.

 

Roger

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Hi Alec,

I think I have sorted your problem - my local garage is selling compressors for £2.50 with every purchase of £30 petrol. These are small (very very small) thus highly portable. They run off 12v - probably get away with a lemon and a copper & steel nail. If you turn it on on Monday morning it would probably be ready to run by Saturday but not necessarily the same month. To help things along you could get 4 of these little devils and parallel them up thus bringing the compresor into use in weeks rather than months.

I hope this helps.

 

Roger

:blink::lol:

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Hi Roger,

 

I did consider mentioning these little things in my post, as in not relevant, then on second thoughts I reckoned that by doing so I would be unfairly suppressing the opportunity for wit, humour, jest and the exercise of engineering irelevancy. Not to mention giving some bright spark the opportunity to join the annual race for Prat of The Year.

 

Possibly you could assist here by measuring the pneumatic output of these little blighters, and also the requisite input of electrical energy, and finally the heat output.

 

My gut feeling is that I'd probably need a 3-figure herd of the Chinese crackers to achieve anything resembling a cfm result, and that whilst the heat output would eliminate garage condensation it would probably also create a 10m radius 'dry zone' around the garage ? Not to mention a carbon footprint that would do credit to Bigfoot or the Royle Family . . .

 

OK, having kicked that one into touch . . .

 

Hi Richard,

 

agreed the Tiger jobbies look like pukka kit, but I'm trying to avoid shelling out £400 for a compressor if I can get away with a quarter of that !

 

Years ago in Malta I admired an installation with an air tank the size of a naval boiler (probably just what it had been in a former life) being fed by a poxy little compressor that looked like it might be more at home pumping up footballs. The garage chappie cheerfully explained that big compressors cost a fortune under the local tax regime of the day, whereas little ones were tax-free. Also bigger units needed costly care and maintenance, whereas the little ones you just topped up with oil and every year flogged them on before they went bang, and replaced with new. Lack of cfm from the compressor being compensated by the reservoir of pressurised air.

 

If you take a glance at the link below, it looks like an awful lot of kit for a ton, and occasional useage only . . . anyone used one, perchance ?

 

http://www.wolf-online.co.uk/product_new.asp?id=001619

 

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

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Hi Alec; not a bad unit for the price & the displacement is pretty good but, as I said previously, the problem with direct coupled units is they have a limited working pressure around 115 psi. whereas separate belt driven units will invariably go up to 150 + psi. I don’t know how much you’ve used compressors in the past but once you’ve got one, it’s amazing the uses you can find for it & once you start to build up a collection of air tools, you may be disappointed with a working pressure of just 115 psi!

 

Separates may be the way to go, especially if you can scrounge a 2 - 2 1/2 HP motor & I’m sure your capable of welding up some angle iron for a mounting frame. But buying separate components seems to be rather more expensive than buying the same bits assembled as a unit, receiver & all!

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Hi Alec; not a bad unit for the price & the displacement is pretty good but, as I said previously, the problem with direct coupled units is they have a limited working pressure around 115 psi. whereas separate belt driven units will invariably go up to 150 + psi. I don't know how much you've used compressors in the past but once you've got one, it's amazing the uses you can find for it & once you start to build up a collection of air tools, you may be disappointed with a working pressure of just 115 psi!

 

Separates may be the way to go, especially if you can scrounge a 2 - 2 1/2 HP motor & I'm sure your capable of welding up some angle iron for a mounting frame. But buying separate components seems to be rather more expensive than buying the same bits assembled as a unit, receiver & all!

 

So this is all quite interesting as I have just bought a compressor myself..

 

Here in the US the units that are movable and can be comfortably accomodated in a home shop max out at around 2HP, 6cfm, 150 PSI. These are typically vertical, on wheels and have a 30G tank, can run on 110 or 240v. Good for most air tools, small bench media blaster. Cost under $400.

 

 

The one I bought is an oiled unit (vs oil less) and is belt driven.

 

To go bigger than that in cfm there is a big jump to stationary units, 60G tank, 3+ HP motor, 240v only, need to be anchored to the floor and deliver 12+ cfm. These occupy a space approc 5 feet tall and 3 feet diameter. Good for all air tools, could media blast a frame outside if you needed to using a power blaster.

 

I'm a bit surprised at the high cfm numbers that I'm seeing for these UK small portable compressors, is that because they are 240v and have bigger motors ?

 

 

Stan

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Hi Alec; not a bad unit for the price & the displacement is pretty good but, as I said previously, the problem with direct coupled units is they have a limited working pressure around 115 psi. whereas separate belt driven units will invariably go up to 150 + psi. I don’t know how much you’ve used compressors in the past but once you’ve got one, it’s amazing the uses you can find for it & once you start to build up a collection of air tools, you may be disappointed with a working pressure of just 115 psi!

 

Separates may be the way to go, especially if you can scrounge a 2 - 2 1/2 HP motor & I’m sure your capable of welding up some angle iron for a mounting frame. But buying separate components seems to be rather more expensive than buying the same bits assembled as a unit, receiver & all!

 

I work in a Naval Dockyard with a distributed LP air main feeding the site from a number of compressor installations. We run the main at 7 to 8 atmospheres and that is sufficient for all the air tools we use including blasting.

 

I have a small 2.5hp compressor with a 50 litre tank that I picked up for £100 and find it does most things that I need including driving a small shot blast tool even though that is supposed to required a minimum of 3hp. It also (touch wood) has stood a fair amount of use so I don't think it owes me anything.

 

I'd give the £100 unit a go.

 

Rgds Ian

 

PS. I have a Wagner airless spray gun which I have used in the past for spraying cellulose and provided its not a metallic paint and you get the viscosity right, it achieves a pretty good finish. Its certainly good enough for spraying primer coats and a lot less fussy.

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Try looking in local ads for second hand as they are usually considerably cheaper than new. Make sure you see it running right up to cut out pressure and check how long it takes to get there. If it takes forever then walk away as there are usually a few turning up every month or so. A 2/3 year old one is typically worth about half its new price.

Stuart

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I'm a bit surprised at the high cfm numbers that I'm seeing for these UK small portable compressors, is that because they are 240v and have bigger motors ?

Most compressor manufacturers in the UK now quote the cfm figure for cylinder displacement & this is a little misleading; what’s important is the Free Air Delivery (FAD) in cfm. This is the rate a compressor can actually deliver air to the receiver & the rate at which air tools will consume it. The FAD can be as much as 30% less than the displacement figure so, perhaps, it’s just the way it’s specified here in the UK; there may not be that much difference if the Americans are a little more honest in the way they specify the output!

 

As for the power/voltage; a motor rating of, say, 2 ½ HP will still be able to drive a compressor of a given size regardless its 110v or 240v, although a 110v motor will be physically rather larger than a 240v motor of the same power rating. What I’m not 100% sure of is if an American HP is the same as a UK HP; personally I’m more at home with the Kw rating these days!

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Most compressor manufacturers in the UK now quote the cfm figure for cylinder displacement & this is a little misleading; what's important is the Free Air Delivery (FAD) in cfm. This is the rate a compressor can actually deliver air to the receiver & the rate at which air tools will consume it. The FAD can be as much as 30% less than the displacement figure so, perhaps, it's just the way it's specified here in the UK; there may not be that much difference if the Americans are a little more honest in the way they specify the output!

 

As for the power/voltage; a motor rating of, say, 2 ½ HP will still be able to drive a compressor of a given size regardless its 110v or 240v, although a 110v motor will be physically rather larger than a 240v motor of the same power rating. What I'm not 100% sure of is if an American HP is the same as a UK HP; personally I'm more at home with the Kw rating these days!

 

ok, the different reporting standards may be what is going on. All of the tools here are rated for xx cfm and the compressors are rated for the cfm that they can spit out on a continuing basis, usually reported at two different psi levels. Apparently at one time in the US the air compressor ratings were all exaggerated but there was some effort a while back to clean it up and while there is still some evidence of lies, damned lies and air compressor ratings (such as stating peak HP and not continuous HP) the cfm numbers seem largely consistent and I had no problem comparing compressors.

 

My major dissapointment was the there seemed to be nothing in between the 2HP 30 Gal style on wheels and the 5HP 60 gal stationary style. The larger unit was what I needed but I could not move it alone and it would have taken up a lot of space (it was about 5 feet tall). If there had been a 3HP 10 cfm 40 Gal on wheels I would have bought that.

 

Stan

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Hi Stan,

 

As Richard rightly points out, in the UK there is too much reference to displacement as opposed to delivery, and the two figures are very different !

 

My 200lt air tank is 50 US gal in round figures, hence my inclination to use that as a fixed installation - whilst utilising a 2hp or 2.5hp motor portable compressor with integral 6 or 12 gal tank as a supply unit.

 

Stuart's suggestion of a secondhand unit is fair enough, but in this neck of the woods a s/h unit costs maybe 75% of the best internet deals for a new one, which really doesn't stack up too well.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

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lost me,,whats a good buy,,laymans terms

toby

 

I dont think there is a simple answer to the question as it depends on what you want to do with the compressor, what tools you want to run and for how long, how much space you can allocate to it and how much you want to spend. As a rule, bigger is better and it is the continuous delivered cfm that is important not HP or tank size. The oiled, belt driven units seem to be quieter and hold up better over time and the 30G 2HP 5-6 cfm systems on wheels seem to be a good compromise for the home shop. You are not going to blast a frame on the front lawn for 10 hours with it but it can blast using small nozzles and 80 grit alox in a cabinet and will run most power tools. Here in the US there is a wide choice in this range, costing around $400.00 but apparently the specifications vary from region to region so where you live will be a factor also.

 

Just looking at samples on the UK amazon.com site it looks like you are going to pay around 400 GBP for a comparable unit. Odd that I did not see any vertical tank models on amazon as that is my preferred format.

 

Stan

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I dont think there is a simple answer to the question as it depends on what you want to do with the compressor, what tools you want to run and for how long, how much space you can allocate to it and how much you want to spend. As a rule, bigger is better and it is the continuous delivered cfm that is important not HP or tank size. The oiled, belt driven units seem to be quieter and hold up better over time and the 30G 2HP 5-6 cfm systems on wheels seem to be a good compromise for the home shop. You are not going to blast a frame on the front lawn for 10 hours with it but it can blast using small nozzles and 80 grit alox in a cabinet and will run most power tools. Here in the US there is a wide choice in this range, costing around $400.00 but apparently the specifications vary from region to region so where you live will be a factor also.

 

Just looking at samples on the UK amazon.com site it looks like you are going to pay around 400 GBP for a comparable unit. Odd that I did not see any vertical tank models on amazon as that is my preferred format.

 

Stan

Stan its quite hard to get the upright ones over here now as most suppliers only offer the Horizontal tank type in portable wheeled or fixed leg types. Must be a Brit thing!

Stuart

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lost me,,whats a good buy,,laymans terms

toby

As I said in my original response to your post; IMO you will find it difficult to better the Air Master Tiger 9/55 from Machine Mart @ £305 (the one I have). Or for around another 50 quid, the Tiger 15/55. This unit is the same size but packs a lot more punch & worth the extra IMO as it will do all you could ever want.

 

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/categori...rch/airmaster-2

Edited by Richard Crawley

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