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New car, newbie owner, advice to get car back on road please !


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Hey all, hope you're good.

 

OK, so I got my TR6 from Chris at TRGB a couple of weeks ago, did the 40 miles back plus another 80 on top that first night, car hasn't started since. When I got home it was low on fuel, and I parked it on my drive tail down nose up as there is a gradient.

Didn't start the next day, hasn't since. Last weekend pushed it up the road (blown away how heavy she is !), turned it round and rolled back down the slight hill, trying to bump start it. I think there may have been one cough, but no joy (not a good gradient). Parked it nose down this time. Since then I've topped up the petrol and been turning the engine over daily, with a booster sometimes (although it cranks fine on the battery), with no joy at all. What have I done ? Dragged up some cr@p from the bottom of the engine ? Got some sort of airlock in my fuel feed ? It's a US Import but I think all the EGR stuff has been removed when it was restored and made RHD, twin SUs, some form of engine mod as it's quite powerful, does run with an idle of 1000rpm though.

This weekend I shall disconnect the fuel feed to the carbs and see if fuel is pumping (although I haven't been smelling any), pending that result I'll decide what's next.

 

To reflect honestly on Chris and TRGB tough they have been excellent, it would just be nice to start of where I mean to continue and fix it myself, especially as it will be my daily drive (I work from home).

 

Second thing was the water temp gauge, on the whole journey home and around afterwards it went up to 1/4 on the gauge in what I expect is a normal fashion but never went above it. Gauge correction or thermostat issue ? Don't want the engine running too cold.

 

As ever, thanks in advance guys, can't wait to see some of you so you can show me round my car !!!

 

Martyn.

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Hey all, hope you're good.

 

OK, so I got my TR6 from Chris at TRGB a couple of weeks ago, did the 40 miles back plus another 80 on top that first night, car hasn't started since. When I got home it was low on fuel, and I parked it on my drive tail down nose up as there is a gradient.

Didn't start the next day, hasn't since. Last weekend pushed it up the road (blown away how heavy she is !), turned it round and rolled back down the slight hill, trying to bump start it. I think there may have been one cough, but no joy (not a good gradient). Parked it nose down this time. Since then I've topped up the petrol and been turning the engine over daily, with a booster sometimes (although it cranks fine on the battery), with no joy at all. What have I done ? Dragged up some cr@p from the bottom of the engine ? Got some sort of airlock in my fuel feed ? It's a US Import but I think all the EGR stuff has been removed when it was restored and made RHD, twin SUs, some form of engine mod as it's quite powerful, does run with an idle of 1000rpm though.

This weekend I shall disconnect the fuel feed to the carbs and see if fuel is pumping (although I haven't been smelling any), pending that result I'll decide what's next.

 

To reflect honestly on Chris and TRGB tough they have been excellent, it would just be nice to start of where I mean to continue and fix it myself, especially as it will be my daily drive (I work from home).

 

Second thing was the water temp gauge, on the whole journey home and around afterwards it went up to 1/4 on the gauge in what I expect is a normal fashion but never went above it. Gauge correction or thermostat issue ? Don't want the engine running too cold.

 

As ever, thanks in advance guys, can't wait to see some of you so you can show me round my car !!!

 

Martyn.

 

Martyn, it sounds like you need to do some basic checks to make sure that you are getting fuel and spark. If you run the tank dry in these old cars there is a chance that you got some **** in the system. There should be an inline fuel filter just before the fuel pump so check that first and if you dont have one, go get one..

 

The temp gauge doesnt sound abnormal to me for a properly working cooling system in winter. That is pretty much where mine sits all year round except in traffic in July.

 

Stan

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I think you've hit the nail on the head yourself. First thing to do is check for fuel (as you suggested, remove line and crank it over) next check for a spark (remove plug, reconnect lead, earth plug and crank over - though not near the fuel you just spilled in the previous test!!)

 

One quick thing to check though, does your fuel pump have a glass bowl and is there fuel in it? It may have a priming lever on the underside, pump this and see if you can see any petrol flowing?

 

You could also try using some easy start into the air intake to see if it will fire on that.

 

Good Luck and keep us posted.

 

Jon

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Hi Martyn.

 

As the other guys here say you have some options to check.

You said your car had litte fuel in the tank at the end of your trip.

In this period of year it can come water in the petrol if the car has been stored for a while and it has been low temperatures.

That you can cure either draining the tank , or add , (I dont know the english word for it ," condense remover") to the fuel.

Of course you also have to check that the fuel line and filters are ok.If you disconnect the fuel line on the carburettors when you are cranking and

lead the fuel into a cup or glass you can see if it is clean.

Then you have the ignition.Check the sparkplug cables,make sure you get them back on the right place.

Take off the top of the distributor and carefully wipe it with a clean cloth or paper.

Also check the rotor carefully.

Take one sparkplug out and see if it sparks when you crank.If not you have to check if your contact breakers are ok.

Then you have to check the coil and the condenser.

If you are familiar using a voltmeter you can measure the voltage over the contact breaker and coil when you are turning the engine by hand,

by this method you can check if the ignition wiring is ok.The voltager should be present when when the contact breaker are closed.

This you can measure on the coil.If everything seem ok with this measurement and the engine still wont start it could be the

ignition condenser that is defective.

Good luck.

 

Oystein

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Hi Martyn

In regards to the temp gauge I'd be tempted to try and find someone with a digital temp sensor to "prove" what temp the car is running at (and getting to) triumph temp gauges are generally inaccurate and I know that in Australia most Triumph specialists use a digital sensor to prove temp due to the obvious problems with stags particularly

Are you also sure that the car has a thermostat, I've seen many tr's running without them and this tends to make the car run cold

Hope this helps

Andy

 

Hi Martyn.

 

As the other guys here say you have some options to check.

You said your car had litte fuel in the tank at the end of your trip.

In this period of year it can come water in the petrol if the car has been stored for a while and it has been low temperatures.

That you can cure either draining the tank , or add , (I dont know the english word for it ," condense remover") to the fuel.

Of course you also have to check that the fuel line and filters are ok.If you disconnect the fuel line on the carburettors when you are cranking and

lead the fuel into a cup or glass you can see if it is clean.

Then you have the ignition.Check the sparkplug cables,make sure you get them back on the right place.

Take off the top of the distributor and carefully wipe it with a clean cloth or paper.

Also check the rotor carefully.

Take one sparkplug out and see if it sparks when you crank.If not you have to check if your contact breakers are ok.

Then you have to check the coil and the condenser.

If you are familiar using a voltmeter you can measure the voltage over the contact breaker and coil when you are turning the engine by hand,

by this method you can check if the ignition wiring is ok.The voltager should be present when when the contact breaker are closed.

This you can measure on the coil.If everything seem ok with this measurement and the engine still wont start it could be the

ignition condenser that is defective.

Good luck.

 

Oystein

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Hi Martyn

If the fuel pump doesn't have a priming lever, disconnect the discharge pipe somewhere convenient and turn the engine over with the starter you should get a good spurt of fuel into a jar or whatever, disconnect the HT lead to the coil for safety if you are more comfortable with that.

I would also suggest that you renew the petrol pump anyway as good quality ones normally have a priming lever, they aren't very expensive and most of the ones without it are what's politely described as cheap and cheerful!

Basically if the car was running, either you haven't got a spark or you haven't got fuel, but if the tickover is 1000 rpm it sounds as if it's a bit out of tune anyway.

Ron

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These old cars seem to know when they've got a new owner, 'cos they always try it on.

 

If the car was running well enough to cover 100 miles or so when you drove it home, then there can't be too much wrong with it and you need to return to the condition before the problem arose. Obvious, I know, but there ought to be no need to fiddle with anything that hasn't changed. The smart money is on a fuel problem associated with running the tank low. Most likely a bit of crud is stuck in a pipe or the carb.

 

So, first step check you are getting fuel at the last carb. It can take quite a bit of pumping/cranking to get it there. If fuel isn't getting through, go to the next joint upstream until you've isolated the restriction. There could be more than one! If you're satisified that that's OK, check there's petrol and no rubbish in either float bowl and check there's no grit in the float chamber needle valve. You'll need to take off the the float chamber cover (be careful not the break the gasket) and pull out the pin that the float pivots on with a pair of pliers. This can be quite stiff, but it is just a push fit and remove the needle valve. Blow through in both directions. Reassembly, as Mr Haynes would say, is the reverse procedure.

 

If there's no joy, the problem may then be electrical. So it's a good idea to make sure your battery is fully charged before you start your work - it could be the alternator isn't charging your battery, or it's a tired battery. The other guys have given a good resume of what you need to do to locate and cure the problem.

 

Good luck. If it's any consolation, every classic I've bought hasn't worked properly when I've got it home either.

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Second thing was the water temp gauge, on the whole journey home and around afterwards it went up to 1/4 on the gauge in what I expect is a normal fashion but never went above it. Gauge correction or thermostat issue ? Don't want the engine running too cold.

 

Martyn.

 

Hi Martyn, I hope you are making progress OK on the start-up....... regarding the temperature gauge (minor problem) , the temp sensor under the thermostat could also be faulty, I recently had my gauge out and powered up on the bench. If you have an Ohmmeter to check resistance, the sensor resistance falls as the coolant temperature increases, at cold it should be over 300 Ohms and at halfscale about 100ohms, 33 ohms at full (hot) and 10 ohms would be full scale deflection. I suppose that you could try earthing the lead that goes to the sensor and the gauge should move to full...... wouldn't leave it connected like that for too long though..... if that's OK then it is running too cool, or the sensor is U/S.

 

john

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A cheap multimeter from maplins or similar should come with a thermocoupling. remove the radiator cap and let the car run up to temp with the thermocoupling in the neck of the radiator. at about 82 - 86 degrees the temp gauge should be about centre, if it is not then most likely you need to replace the temp sender unit (about 5 quid).

 

if the gauge reads centred while the car is not moving during this test, but won't go above 1/4 when on the move, then your thermostat is stuck open

 

andy

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Gents, there is nothing better than joining a forum where everyone dives in to help everyone else, thank you so much for your guidance.

Sunday morning (so it wasn't me in Amersham), I disconnected the fuel pipe from the carbs and we were definitely getting fuel delivery when I turned the engine over. Next, pulled a spark plug and no spark whatsoever when turning over. Had a good look around the ignition circuits and wiring, Lumenition box doing something or other, then noticed the damn earth had come of the solenoid. Such a ridiculous oversight I thought something else must be up but I turned her on the key and after a little fight she started up, huge smile on my chops. After a little run she was as smooth as anything, still running at 1/4 temp, 1000rpm idle but happy to cruise in o/d at 85.

 

But now I'm realising what owning a convertible means. When I opened the car up on Sunday to work on it I was greeted by two ducks and a fish such was the water inside. The hood is meant to be new, but I could see wet areas inside on the hood and the footwell carpets and soundproofing were sodden. They are now hanging in the rafters of my garage over buckets and the TR6 has been moved into the garage. Fortunately my next door neighbour had some tea-bag-sized bags of the silica they use when you buy new shoes, so that's soaking up most of the moisture that's left I hope.

 

Any advice over hoods ? Are we able to proof them later in their life, like you do with a breathable coat ? I'll have to take the seats out and sort the rust and paint the flooring when we have better weather, I might just leave it with no carpets in it.

 

Cheers once again, Mart.

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Gents, there is nothing better than joining a forum where everyone dives in to help everyone else, thank you so much for your guidance.

Sunday morning (so it wasn't me in Amersham), I disconnected the fuel pipe from the carbs and we were definitely getting fuel delivery when I turned the engine over. Next, pulled a spark plug and no spark whatsoever when turning over. Had a good look around the ignition circuits and wiring, Lumenition box doing something or other, then noticed the damn earth had come of the solenoid. Such a ridiculous oversight I thought something else must be up but I turned her on the key and after a little fight she started up, huge smile on my chops. After a little run she was as smooth as anything, still running at 1/4 temp, 1000rpm idle but happy to cruise in o/d at 85.

 

But now I'm realising what owning a convertible means. When I opened the car up on Sunday to work on it I was greeted by two ducks and a fish such was the water inside. The hood is meant to be new, but I could see wet areas inside on the hood and the footwell carpets and soundproofing were sodden. They are now hanging in the rafters of my garage over buckets and the TR6 has been moved into the garage. Fortunately my next door neighbour had some tea-bag-sized bags of the silica they use when you buy new shoes, so that's soaking up most of the moisture that's left I hope.

 

Any advice over hoods ? Are we able to proof them later in their life, like you do with a breathable coat ? I'll have to take the seats out and sort the rust and paint the flooring when we have better weather, I might just leave it with no carpets in it.

 

Cheers once again, Mart.

 

Hi Martin. I got mine from TRGB as well, and I didn't make the trip home, but, like you, they were extremely helpful, Gary Bates making a round trip from Somersham twice to replace a burned out alternator! I was glad I took the three months warranty.

Old cars don't like being inactive for any length of time, or probably more like don't like being active after being inactive if you get my drift!

On the wet footwells I'd take a careful look at the plenum chamber drains (the plenum is behind the bulkhead). They drain rainwater at the outer ends through a half inch pipe, which is ideally connected to rubber pipes passing down through front of sill / back of wheelarch to drip onto the road. If you're unlucky the pipe is either blocked or non-existant and water then drains direct into the footwells!

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Gents, there is nothing better than joining a forum where everyone dives in to help everyone else, thank you so much for your guidance.

Sunday morning (so it wasn't me in Amersham), I disconnected the fuel pipe from the carbs and we were definitely getting fuel delivery when I turned the engine over. Next, pulled a spark plug and no spark whatsoever when turning over. Had a good look around the ignition circuits and wiring, Lumenition box doing something or other, then noticed the damn earth had come of the solenoid. Such a ridiculous oversight I thought something else must be up but I turned her on the key and after a little fight she started up, huge smile on my chops. After a little run she was as smooth as anything, still running at 1/4 temp, 1000rpm idle but happy to cruise in o/d at 85.

 

But now I'm realising what owning a convertible means. When I opened the car up on Sunday to work on it I was greeted by two ducks and a fish such was the water inside. The hood is meant to be new, but I could see wet areas inside on the hood and the footwell carpets and soundproofing were sodden. They are now hanging in the rafters of my garage over buckets and the TR6 has been moved into the garage. Fortunately my next door neighbour had some tea-bag-sized bags of the silica they use when you buy new shoes, so that's soaking up most of the moisture that's left I hope.

 

Any advice over hoods ? Are we able to proof them later in their life, like you do with a breathable coat ? I'll have to take the seats out and sort the rust and paint the flooring when we have better weather, I might just leave it with no carpets in it.

 

Cheers once again, Mart.

 

The cockpit should stay pretty dry when things are working. Even if there are slight leaks around the windows or the windshield seals you should not be getting that wet unless you left a window open so something else is going on. Assuming there are no holes in the floor and the tranny cover seals are in place and intact the next thing to check is the plenum drain pipes. You can see them under the dash at the extremes of each side where the metal drain tubes from the plenum attaches to a rubber pipe that goes into the inner wing to dump the drained water into the inner/outer wing cavity. These can either block or block then rot leaving an open path for rain water through the plenum and into the footwell. I would check there first.

 

Stan

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The cockpit should stay pretty dry when things are working. Even if there are slight leaks around the windows or the windshield seals you should not be getting that wet unless you left a window open so something else is going on. Assuming there are no holes in the floor and the tranny cover seals are in place and intact the next thing to check is the plenum drain pipes. You can see them under the dash at the extremes of each side where the metal drain tubes from the plenum attaches to a rubber pipe that goes into the inner wing to dump the drained water into the inner/outer wing cavity. These can either block or block then rot leaving an open path for rain water through the plenum and into the footwell. I would check there first.

 

Stan

 

Hey Stan,

 

 

What i dont understand is how did the two ducks and the fish get in there. :lol::lol:

 

Cheers

 

Guy

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Hey guys.

 

Chris at TRGB is sending me a headlining rubber for the windscreen if it's that (rain has been horizontal recently), and he also suggested the drain tubes which I will check out this weekend. Also driving it to Bristol (in what looks like rain) Friday so wish me luck !

 

Cheers for your help.

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Right, OK, went to Bristol......(had checked the pipes in the footwells and they seemed nicely intact before I left)

 

Trip down fine with the roof down, bar the numb fingers through my driving gloves when I got there. Pulled strongly at 70 on the M4 though.

Parked up on level ground, under a tree unfortunately but beggars can't be choosers in Bristol. Came back to the car the next afternoon (it had chucked it down) and again, quite a bit of water in the passenger footwell. Staining also on the inside of the roof, I am pretty certain now that the material is just letting water straight through it.

 

What about proofing ? There are several products available to waterproof your roof, anyone tried any ?

 

It would be a shame to bin a good-fitting roof that keeps the car quiet and warm if I can't re-proof it.

 

Cheers all,

 

Mart.

Edited by mart160plus
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Right, OK, went to Bristol......(had checked the pipes in the footwells and they seemed nicely intact before I left)

 

Trip down fine with the roof down, bar the numb fingers through my driving gloves when I got there. Pulled strongly at 70 on the M4 though.

Parked up on level ground, under a tree unfortunately but beggars can't be choosers in Bristol. Came back to the car the next afternoon (it had chucked it down) and again, quite a bit of water in the passenger footwell. Staining also on the inside of the roof, I am pretty certain now that the material is just letting water straight through it.

 

What about proofing ? There are several products available to waterproof your roof, anyone tried any ?

 

It would be a shame to bin a good-fitting roof that keeps the car quiet and warm if I can't re-proof it.

 

Cheers all,

 

Mart.

Edited by TR NIALL
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Hi TR Niall

 

I know you are a long way away across the Irish Sea, but please, there is no need to shout!!! (i.e. Cap Letters).

 

May I politely advise that some consider use of capital letters shouting in emails and forums etc.

 

No offence intended whatsoever. :)

 

Best regards

Edited by ianhoward
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Parked up on level ground, under a tree unfortunately but beggars can't be choosers in Bristol. Came back to the car the next afternoon (it had chucked it down) and again, quite a bit of water in the passenger footwell. Staining also on the inside of the roof, I am pretty certain now that the material is just letting water straight through it.

If the hood is new, you should be able to claim under warranty, but, like you, I would not want to have to replace it if it is a good fit (unless the fitting is also covered in the warranty claim). Treatment of the seam stitching is probably the simplest solution, but I would ask TRGB to claim for the cost/hassle from their supplier before doing anything to invalid the warranty. Although there may be no written warranty, it should at least be 'fit for purpose' (i.e. keeping the rain out) which would appear not to be the case.

 

HI MART ARE YOU SURE THE WATER IS NOT COMING IN THE WINDSCREEN ON THE BOTTOM CORNER ON THE PASSENGER SIDE,IF THE SEAL IS OLD THE WATER CREEPS UNDER FROM THE OUTSIDE AND RUNS DOWN THE A/POST ONTO THE FLOOR.

With so much water in the footwell, this is also a possibility. I had a similar problem earlier this year with my Skoda (yeah, sad aren't I?). Having checked out the sunroof and various bulkhead panel joints, grommets and seals, without any joy, I persuaded the windscreen company that had last replaced the screen for me to reseal it with silicone. Problem solved.

The trouble with windscreen leaks, is that they often occur only when the car is parked at a particular angle or facing a certain direction with respect to the rain, so it is difficult to replicate the fault with a hosepipe. There is also a real danger of water getting into the electrics and instruments behind the dash and I have heard of cars being written-off following fires caused by short circuits in this way.

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Hi TR Niall

 

I know you are a long way away across the Irish Sea, but please, there is no need to shout!!! (i.e. Cap Letters).

 

May I politely advise that some consider use of capital letters shouting in emails and forums etc.

 

No offence intended whatsoever. :)

 

Best regards

SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS BUT CANT FIND BUTTON TO TURN THEM OFF,THIS COMPUTER CRACK IS ALL NEW TO ME.
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SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS BUT CANT FIND BUTTON TO TURN THEM OFF,THIS COMPUTER CRACK IS ALL NEW TO ME.

Niall its the third button up from the bottom on the left hand side of the key board and it should say Caps Lock on it, press once to turn them off.

Stuart.

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