malcolm Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 The V8 has covered over 7000 miles with me (total about 30k since the engine went in) including a few track days and summer trips and I'm pretty happy with the performance & reliability. I'm concerned by the rattling/clattering noise from the front pullley area. Not sure if it's actually getting louder, or if I'm just noticing it more. Any thoughts on what the problem might be? Malcolm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martynharrison Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Sounds like the timing chain. The standard rover one is usually replaced by a duplex when a new / decent cam is put in, also holes drilled in the front of the block to allow oil through to lubricate the chain. What have you got in there? Not that I know what I've got at the moment, until I rebuild mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
malcolm Posted July 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Don't really know, tho a fast road cam was fitted. Doesn't sound like the chain, more like a "clatter" from the pulleys?? Malcolm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andrewt Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 I did once have the bolt securing the bottom pulley back off. This allowed the pulley to move until it got to the point where it threw the belt off. (No water pump, not good) Upon further investigation it transpired that the large washer was bottoming on the end of the crank before it bottomed fully onto the pulley, thus the pulley vibration eventually rattled the bolt slack. I had to mod the washer to ensure it only touches the pulley, not the crank. This was possibly due to the fact I was using an SD1 engine & had fitted a P6 short pulley. I do however agree that your description sounds more like the chain. There is no tensioner so excess wear shows up quickly in noise. Cheers Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
malcolm Posted July 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Perhaps I will be able to get one of the specialists to take a listen/look at Malvern. Come on Steve and Simon, I know you read the forum - what do you recon Malcolm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
clive Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 malc... why not get one of the specialist suppliers to take a look at the international? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
clive Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 darn.... he must have been posting the same time as me! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chris turner Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 If the specialists are too busy at the weekend,I know a chap who is coming on Sunday who will tell you what is wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
malcolm Posted July 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 ... and to be fair I expect it will be a very busy weekend for them too. Make sure he doesn't upset me by suggesting something expensive is broken though Chris Who is he BTW?? Malcolm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stevew2 Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Malcolm Try removing your fan belt and start the engine for a few seconds.If the noise has gone this will indicate that it is either the water pump or alternator. If it is still there I will come and have a listen with my stethoscope at the international. Steve @ S&S Quote Link to post Share on other sites
malcolm Posted July 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Thanks for that. When I removed the belt it was pretty obvious what was making the noise. The bottom pulley was loose, I could rattle it about with my finger! Had to remove the radiator to get at it but have now tightened the big central bolt holding the pulley on and it's done the trick. Thanks to all for the advice and once more to SnS for the top tips on refilling the cooling system. Malcolm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
malcolm Posted March 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2004 I've resurrected this old thread as I just had to do it again. The pulley is nice and tight again now, but why is it working loose?? Malcolm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted March 27, 2004 Report Share Posted March 27, 2004 Malcolm, did you put any Loctite stud/bearing juice on it? That's the only answer. You can always break the joint quite easily, fit tight fitting socket on a T-bar, rotate round to rest on a block of wood or axle stand/whatever, give ignition a very quick flick, and the seal will be broken and bolt loosened. I've used this method on almost every car I've worked on, but Loctite and correct torquing is essential. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cinnobar Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Malcolm, I suspect that the bolt is knackered or maybe the keyway in either crank or pulley or possibly you're not torquing it enough. Book figure is 200ft/lbs. If it's come loose more than once then it will have damaged the bolt thread and yes you should clean everything up and use loctite on the bolt before tightening. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
malcolm Posted March 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 I've no idea if I'm torquing it enough. It is a real sod to get a socket to. I've been using an extension bar with the Wife standing on it to get it tightened at all! Thanks for the advice. I've never used any sort of 'glue' on a bolt before but next time I take it to bits to tighten I will try it. Should I remove the bolt completely and loctite the thread? Malcolm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 I'd guess that the slot in the pulley has become worn and allowing the a little movement which in turn loosens the nut. I had a similar thing happen with a mini - built it up with chemical metal as a bodge as my brother was about to sell it. A new pulley or a more permanent repair may be on the cards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Malcolm, yes remove bolt completely and apply Locitite on one side for 3/8" - ½", if there is any slop or play you can build up with JB Weld and then trim/file as needed. Unless your good lady is huge! the easiest way to tighten is put car in 4th gear, get your good lady to stand on the brakes and you tighten it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cinnobar Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 Malc, important point when using loctite or similar is to make sure both bolt and socket are as clean as possible. I use carb cleaner, then make sure you don't touch it put it straight in and tighten it to full torque. Loctite is anerobic in other words sets when air is excluded so the minute you start tightening the bolt it started to set.... Standing on the brakes with the car in 5th and then use Looong knuckle bar or similar, better is to get someone with an airgun to do it. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andrewt Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 Malcolm After i had the same problem (using a P6 pulley on an SD1 crank) i did some measuring and found the pulley boss was shorten than the crank end (presumably a P6 pulley is different here to an SD1 pulley. Thus the thick washer was not gripping the chain sprocket & pulley like it should, meaning they could both wallop around and lossen the bolt off. i modded this by machining the centre of the thick washer so that the crank could slide inside it to ensure it gripped the pulley etc. I also recommend the use of loctite etc. Note that a key is never designed to lock the two parts together, only to provide an assembly aid to ensure the parts align as intended. If you have had any wear to the keyway the only thing it will affect is where the pulley timing mark falls. It may make a degree or two difference i guess. Not vital if you can mark where TDC is then use an adjustable timing light when doing the timing. Cheers Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 Malcolm, I stand corrected, being a 6 man, I sometimes forget that some vehicles have 5th gear!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stevew2 Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 Malcolm Correct torque setting is between 140 to 160 lbs/ft. Don't use loctite on the bottom pulley bolt,just make sure it is clean,then apply some copper grease to the thread. Steve @ S&S Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 Don't use loctite on the bottom pulley bolt,just make sure it is clean,then apply some copper grease to the thread. Steve, I have to ask why not use Loctite, I always have for the same and similar applications for the last 20+ years, is there some particular reason for not using it on a 7/8? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cinnobar Posted March 29, 2004 Report Share Posted March 29, 2004 Steve, pukka Land Rover Manual on my desk states 200 ft/lb or 270 NM and doesn't mention Loctite or anything else. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stevew2 Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 Jim You are right the Land Rover manual does state 190 to 210 lbs/ft but the SD1 and P6 manuals both state 140 to 160 lbs/ft.And since Malcolm,s and most other TR7's that have been converted to V8 spec are fitted with SD1 engines I quoted the figures relevant to that engine. Malcolm Have you checked the thickness of the washer on the bottom pulley bolt,if this is to thin,then the bolt may be bottoming out in the crank.Washer should be 12.5mm or 1/2 thick. But I think the main problem is that you are just not getting it tight enough,and as you say it is very awkward to do insitu.We find it easier to remove the starter to allow access to the flywheel,so that we can use the ring gear to lock the engine in posistion while we torque up the pulley. Jonlar Threadlock can cause false readings on a torque wrench due to friction on the thread,bolt head to washer face etc.By applying copper grease or even a light coating of engine oil this friction is eliminated,and therefore the readings more accurate. Also some threadlocks need to be heated up to release them,which could cause damage to the rubber damper of the bottom pulley. Hope this helps Steve @ S&S Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 Threadlock can cause false readings on a torque wrench due to friction on the thread,bolt head to washer face etc.By applying copper grease or even a light coating of engine oil this friction is eliminated,and therefore the readings more accurate.Also some threadlocks need to be heated up to release them,which could cause damage to the rubber damper of the bottom pulley. Thanks for that Steve, I've used that method for at least 20+ years and never experienced any problems, undoing the bolt as described in my previous posting. I understand your thinking, and it's always good to have a pro's advice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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