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Newbie with a stuttering car


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Hi all,

 

Great forum - as a new TR 6 owner it's a dream!

 

Just got my '74 car and over the last day I've noticed a tendancy to judder or stutter when pulling away from standstill, or when changing gear and working up the revs.

 

It goes fine under full acceleration - seems to be lower end?

 

I've read through the forum and I'm going to try a couple of things, but could someone please....

 

a) explain the jar trick with the injectors - how DO you clean them?

 

B) Give me a couple of suggestions other than the injectors for the stutter - the fuel pump is original and 'noisy'.

 

Thanks guys, and hello!

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VERY GOOD QUESTION AS YOUR SITUATION FOLLOWS A SIMILAR SUBJECT TO MINE. I LOOK FORWARD TO ANY REPLIES.

 

I HAVE RECENTLY BOUGHT A '1974 TR6. IT DOES SPLUTTER UP TO 1700 RPM WHEN CRIUSING IN A 30MPH AREA AND ON TICK OVER. THE CAR IS HOWEVER REALLY SMOOTH UNDER ACCELERATION AND ABOVE 1800 RMP IN CRUISING CONDITIONS.

 

IT HAS NOT BEEN CONVERTED TO UNLEADED. I PUT IN THE REDEX LEAD REPLACEMENT ADDITIVE.

I HAVE NOTICED THE CAR BEING FAR LESS SPLUTTERY USING SUPER UNLEADED FUEL, BUT THAT FUEL IS NOT ALWAYS EASY TO GET.

 

I AM NEW TO THIS SITE BUT FEEL AFTER OWNING A TR6 FOR JUST SHORT OF A YEAR, THAT IT WILL BE OF MAJOR BENEFIT. I FEEL THAT I HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING WITH PROBLEMS EITHER ON MY OWN OR WITH SUPPLIERS OF PARTS. THERE IS NOTHING LIKE DISCUSSING WITH THE OWNERS OF A SIMILAR CAR.

 

I HAD LOTS OF QUESTIONS FOR PEOPLE AT THE MALVERN SHOW BUT LIKE MANY WERE BEATEN BACK ON THE A38 SOUTH OF TEWKESBURY.

IT WAS A DIFFICULT DICISSION TO TURN AROUND BUT HAD FUN MOTORING IN A TWO CAR TR6 CONVOY.

Edited by JOHN'S TR6
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The old adage is that "99% of carb (read injection) problems are electrical. . ."

 

I'd say it would be a good start to ensure that the ignition side of things is 100% before you start to fiddle with the PI. The bits aren't expensive and its useful to have spares. I'd strongly recommend new plugs (NGK), leads, rotor arm, points and condensor.

Check the timing with a light - at 800 RPM this should be about 10 degrees BTDC.

 

For the guy with the Lucas pump, a new petrol filter might be a good idea too.

 

If you want to look at the injector spray; you can take the injectors out (one at a time) with the engine running. Hold it over a jam jar to catch the fuel (trying to avoid a hot manifold!). You are looking to see a fan or cone of fuel spray. If one drips rather than spraying, this usually means a bit of dirt/debris is stuck inside. You can often clear this by disconnecting the lead and blowing it through with a garage air line. Resist the temptation to lift the 'pin' at the end with pliers. These are sensitive bits of kit.

 

Finally, let us know how you get on - that way the forum continues to build its store of wisdom.

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Hi all,

 

Great forum - as a new TR 6 owner it's a dream!

 

Just got my '74 car and over the last day I've noticed a tendancy to judder or stutter when pulling away from standstill, or when changing gear and working up the revs.

 

It goes fine under full acceleration - seems to be lower end?

 

I've read through the forum and I'm going to try a couple of things, but could someone please....

 

a) explain the jar trick with the injectors - how DO you clean them?

 

B) Give me a couple of suggestions other than the injectors for the stutter - the fuel pump is original and 'noisy'.

 

Thanks guys, and hello!

Hi trimprop? & welcome to the forum

Lots of archive information on here about what & how to do on injections systems. Before you start have a good read up & here

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index....mp;hl=injectors

 

is a good place to start but also use the search engine as it’s mostly all been covered before. Come back with specific questions when you have them.

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Thanks for all the advice!

 

So, changed plugs, points, distributor cap, rotor arm, condenser - definate improvement, but still lumpy at low revs!

 

Ran it to work this morning and dropped it at a local garage to check the timing (ran out of time last night!). Turns out that Rimmer have sent the wrong points! They think new ones are for a 4 cylinder car - could Rimmer have got it that wrong? The points are definately fouling the cam.

 

However, the mechanic (and the chap next to his unit - who worked on TR6s when they were new...) also pointed out how much play the plate in the dizzy had - it's wobbling like a jelly.... They suggest ditching the points and going for a lumenition kit.

 

So... another Rimmer order then.

 

Yet to do the fuel filter - the thought of the boot filling with petrol is keeping me awake at night - might do the spin on oil filter first!

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Lumenition or Magnetronic (cheaper) ignition is generally a pretty good idea for these cars. It will improve cold starting, often give you a few more RPM at the top end and are maintenance free.

 

Alternatively the "Dizzydoctor" (dizzydoctor@aol.com or see TR action for his ad) will recondition your distributor for about £120.

 

Good luck - and let us know how you get on

 

Bryan

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I have no experience of with the Lumenition equipment, but I am very happy with the Pertronix Ignitor (sold in UK by Aldon?) fitted to my TR6. There used to be a hint of a misfire at the top end, which the Ignitor appears to have fixed. Plus I no longer have to adjust the points gap :)

 

Even if you fit an Ignitor (and, I assume, anything short of full electronic ignition), wear elsewhere in the system will still have an impact. I had my dizzy reconditioned not long before fitting the Ignitor, so I have effectively got a new contactless distributor. From your description of 'sloppiness', I'd suggest you talk to Martin Jay, or another dizzy specialist, before splashing out on electronic add-ons to a knackered distributor. Silk purses & sows ears, etc..

 

Incidentally, with exchange rates as they are, make sure you check on the cost of direct import from the US. I got my Ignitor 50% cheaper direct from the US than I would have via the local agent here in Australia.

 

Having said all that, I'm not convinced that a dicky dizzy would give you lumpiness only at the low end. Sort out your points, and then do the other simple checks - for example the injector check you already know about.

 

Cheers,

John

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Hi Trimprop,

 

Before fitting Lumenition, please read the archives on this piece of 'kit'. Newtronic (just been bought by Autocar Electrical Equipment Co Ltd, the designers, manufacturers and worldwide distributors of Lumenition unfortunately :angry: ) and Aldon (Pertronix) are much better.

 

Ray

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Trimprop,

Suggest you look elsewhere than Rimmers.

They have become notorious for being no better than a call centre that happens to sell Triumph and many other parts.

 

Try a smaller concern, like Jigsaw or Canley Classics (both have web sites). They are small chassis Triumph based, but stock and will supply six cylinder parts. You are more than likely to talk to Mark Field or Dave Pearson, both of whom have encyclopedic Triumph knowledge or their deputies who can refer questions to the man who knows.

 

If you prefer similar companies that are TR based, others here can refer you.

 

John

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Thanks all - I think I may have to admit defeat and get it looked at by someone in the know...

 

I've asked this in a different topic - but any reccomendations in West Sussex would be useful.

 

I think the problem is I'm not 100 percent sure how a TR6 should run when fully sorted - so I could be worring about the wrong things!

 

(still daren't do the fuel filter - am considering putting a fuel tap in first!)

Edited by trimprop
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I think the problem is I'm not 100 percent sure how a TR6 should run when fully sorted - so I could be worring about the wrong things!

 

(still daren't do the fuel filter - am considering putting a fuel tap in first!)

It will never tick over as evenly as a BMW but you can get it pretty close. Re the fuel filter, use a proprietary flexible brake line hose clamp on the fuel line but don’t over tighten it (or something smooth that does a similar job), it’s be fine; I use an old smooth faced G clamp.

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I seem to have split my question across two topics - I'll keep it to this one, as I feel I hijacked the other question!

 

So, having looked at the feedback, good and bad, I decided to opt for the lumitronic ignition. Fitted it this evening (easier than I thought...) Guess what - still falters on pull-away in the lower revs and feels as though it 'hesitates' at first under acceleration. I even changed the coil whilst I was at it - the engine bay is starting to look decidedly 'modded' now, what with the blue leads, gold coil and ignition power unit. If I change much more I may have to put it on a 'Q' plate.

 

Had the injectors out - they all seem to be firing fine - it was good fun to pull them out - and no rattles.

 

ran out of time to check the leads again to see if one of the cylinders is not sparking. The engine sounds OK - but at about 800 tick over the whole car wobbles along with the engine's movement. Will check them and let you know.

 

Took it for a spin and could hear pinking - its set to 10 degrees. Funnily enough, at tick over it sounded better when I was initially setting up the ignition, and had set the timing way past the 10 degrees mark - off the scale.

 

Oh and the exhaust stinks of petrol.

 

Next thing to change... the whole car for an MX5 (kidding)

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Pulled off the HT leads - removal of the front two cylinde leads made no difference to the engine speed.

 

Checked the spark and the injectors - all fine. Finally traced the problem to the tickover being set by the accelerator stop screw, rather than the big air inlet adjuster screw - the butterflies are not all set the same, and obviously the front two cylinders were completely closed at tickover, and no air coming in to them - hence the stuttering when pulling away, the car must have been limping on four to begin with, until the butterflies opened.

 

Wound the accelerator stop screw right back and stalled the engine, then openned the air screw up and set it with that. All six cylinders firing at tick over, and removal of any HT lead caused it to labour - phew! Still slight pinking even with the timing set between 8-9 degrees.

 

Runs a lot better now, with a smoother pull-away, and very little falter when accelerating after a gear change but I think the butterflies are going to have to be sorted - its a CR car, so I guess that's going to be fun!

 

Thanks for all the help and advice - it felt great to run it down the dual carriageway today with everything firing as it should (I even changed the fuel filter)

 

Now - on to the front brakes.

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That's great news :rolleyes: Thanks for letting us know the outcome.

 

Even though a lot of the investigative work you did on the engine turned out to be in pursuit of a red herring I bet you feel much more confident about the car now, eh? And you saved some cash by fixing it yourself. I think that's a good result all round.

 

Ray

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That's great news :rolleyes: Thanks for letting us know the outcome.

 

Even though a lot of the investigative work you did on the engine turned out to be in pursuit of a red herring I bet you feel much more confident about the car now, eh? And you saved some cash by fixing it yourself. I think that's a good result all round.

 

Ray

 

 

Exactly - I feel very confident about tackling the engine - took me back to my youth when the only option was fix it or push it. Also, the things that I changed were items that needed updating anyway, and I had fun along the way - which is what these cars are all about anyway.

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hi there, congrats on the tr, i had the same problem with mine, i even caused a stir when i said i was thinking about puuting carbs on mine, ist thing i did was new plugs pionts rotor arm etc, new k+n air filter, made sure eveything was clean and timmed up properly, i found the throttle linkages on mine not to be opening on sync, so carefully adjusting them has made a hell of a difference, what i would say is the linkages with the age of the car are worn, mine is a 74 as well, cr 125bhp model, i got to the malvern show and had a good chat with malcom from prestige . i got to be honest he did some work on my mk1 2.5 pi saloon and did a good job, he'll glady do any work or just advise you, im getting a new set of his bespoke throttle likages in a couple of months, a much simpler system than the triumph and easier to fit. hope this helps keep at it, mine is getting there now, lets all hope fopr a better summer next year eh..

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