[Andrew Smith]

Hi All

Some time ago I posted that TRK was "listing" to the o/s. So, I changed the front springs etc, etc but no real joy - other than the front end is now going (almost) where I want it to.  However, I have noticed that on occasions the rear end seems to steer the front; by that I mean, that if I hit a particularly bad pothole the back end (o/s) will jump out alarmingly, some might say with “zest”!

I have also recently changed the rear lever arms to fast road, so I think the problem lies with the o/s leaf.

Can anyone give me some advice on whether I should just replace them with a standard set, or is there any real value in replacing them with stiffened units - if so, which ones?

I should add that my driving style is reasonably fast (officer!), but I do not want to bounce around too much on rough surfaces when just out for a trundle.

Thanks in advance
Andrew

[Mike Gambordella]

Andrew: I've been told that you can have old leaf springs "re-arched", but for the cost involved you're better off buying new ones. I think I'd go with stock units, but that's a guess on my part. Maybe you could hitch a ride from someone who's TR has stiffer units installed?

In any case, I'll be interested in the outcome as I have a list as well (my passager side - your "far" side?) I plan to replace all the springs sometime in the near future.

Reasonably fast eh?  

Cheers -  
Mike

[Andrew Smith]

Mike Gambordella, on May 26 2005,14:08, said:

Reasonably fast eh?  

Cheers -  
Mike

Hi Mike

Yeah, as apposed to "unreasonably" fast.

Cheers
Andrew

PS, I plan to do this in the coming weeks prior to Malvern, so I'll keep you posted.

A

[chris jameson]

Andrew,

Are you getting any `body roll' on cornering?  If so, maybe a front anti roll/sway bar might lessen the instability on hitting a bump....

I am investigating putting one on my 3A....I find I get a bit of a swerve after hitting a dip or bump...nothing frightening, just a quick tug at the wheel.

I think I am getting more confident at driving the TR at faster speeds....it took me a while...it's a lot more stable with 60 spoke wheels as opposed to the old 48's....so I am probably approaching the stage where some front end enhancement is necessary....

Cheers,

Chris

[Andrew Smith]

chris jameson, on May 27 2005,04:15, said:

I find I get a bit of a swerve after hitting a dip or bump...

Hi Chris

Yes that's what I'm experiencing, but it on occasions it is quite a violent reaction and not necessarily speed induced.

There is no body roll as such, so I don't think an anti-roll bar is needed. I believe it more to do with knackered leaf springs -hence the list (20mm) on the o/s/r.

Cheers
Andrew

[unclepete]

Andrew
I remember reading somewhere about the spring set up on a 3a being offset to allow for road camber?
Never got a suitable answer to a question about this on the forum but this would make sense if Graham's Texan import was set up for left hand drive.
HSJ has a definite lower offside and I have checked and rechecked the springs and shocks which are all fine.
Yes mine skips about at the back end on bumps (bumpsteer) but seems to be helped with a lowered front spring set 7.5" (watch the speed bumps!!!).
Hence the IRS setup on the 4a!
Good running and remember just lean out futher on the quick ones!
Peter

[Andrew Smith]

unclepete, on May 28 2005,00:10, said:

Good running and remember just lean out futher on the quick ones!

Hi Peter

I'm leaning as far as dare on the right handers and Bev leans out on the left - but never far enough!!  

I rebuilt the front suspension earlier this year and up-rated to rally springs coupled with spax adjustables and fast road lever arms to try and redress a listing to the o/s front and rear, but this made little difference.

Taking a centre line through the wheel medallion the measurements to the top lip of the wheel arch are:

n/s/f   = 26¼’’   o/s/f   = 25” (corrected, see Peter's post below)

n/s/r   = 24’’      o/s/r   = 24½’’  (corrected)  

The chassis clearance from the same point is:  n/s/f at 5½’’ and the o/s/f is 5'’ with tire pressures at 28lb all round, does this difference seems acceptable?

The 1¼’’ differential between the n/s and o/s front wheel arch measurements seems at bit much, is it?

Given the theory of 3A’s being offset to allow for road camber, I would be most interested to learn of HSJ’s measurements (and others member’s cars) to assist me to find out where the problem lies, if indeed one exists at all?

So I’m not too sure whether the rear springs are the problem now?

Many thanks
Andrew

[Mike Gambordella]

Andrew: I measured the wheel arch clearance on each side of my car last year, and recall the difference being in the vicinity of 3/4".  1-1/4" does sound like quite a bit.
Interesting theory on the offset for road camber.
The shop doing the restoration work on my car is quite knowledgable - I'll pick their brains on the topic...
Mike

[Andrew Smith]

Mike Gambordella, on May 29 2005,15:32, said:

I measured the wheel arch clearance on each side of my car last year, and recall the difference being in the vicinity of 3/4".  1-1/4" does sound like quite a bit.

Hi Mike, thanks for your reply.

At 1¼’’, it seems that my front wheel arch height difference is in the same region as yours.

The difference of ½’’ at the rear seems nominal, but I remember when on the bikes that problems at the front end were usually indicative of a problem at the back.

I would be interested to hear what your shop guys say about the height difference and wonder whether this could be affected by knackered rear leaf springs, or is normal.

Does anyone else have a view?

Anyway, I'll ask a few specialists on this side of the pond, it will be interesting to compare views.

On the subject of offset road camber; on a previous post, Clive quoted from "How to restore Triumph TR2, TR3 & TR4” by Roger Williams and forwarded by Bill Piggott...

"Triumph did something that I believe may have been unique, in that it elected to fit different strength springs to each side of the car - a harder spring was provided for the driver’s side..."

Have a look at the rest of the topic: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/cgi-bin....springs

Cheers
Andrew

[unclepete]

Andrew
your measurements would indicate the nsf being lower than the osf?
I presume you mean nsf being passenger side and osf being drivers side?
Is your car an import?
Reason I ask is that the camber offset theory is that the car is lower on the drivers side, so running level on the average road surface (1950's).
Mine measures an inch lower on the drivers side which would seem to be the opposite of yours!
The forum article you gave a link to refers to the rear leaf spring shim (left or right side depending on left or right hand drive).
I'm looking at the front spring?

the plot thickens???

Peter

[Andrew Smith]

[quote name='unclepete' date='May 31 2005,00:55']your measurements would indicate the nsf being lower than the osf?
I presume you mean nsf being passenger side and osf being drivers side?
Is your car an import?........the plot thickens???


Peter

No, TRK is a UK RHD car.

Sorry,  I must have had a funny moment; my previous post should have read:

n/s/f   =  26¼’’  o/s/f   = 25”

n/s/r   = 24½’’   o/s/r   = 24’’

So my driver's side front end is lower by 1¼’’.

Given both yours and Mike’s driver's side are between 1” - 1¼’’ lower, my driver’s ride height at the front would appear about right.

What about the rear, is ½” drop on the driver’s side par for the course?

The plot thickens indeed.

Thanks
Andrew

[Andrew Smith]

GDalzell, on May 31 2005,08:36, said:

Andrew,

I've double checked the thickness of the packing under my axle - its 0.4". I must admit that I didn't check which spring had the packing on it (left or right) before I took it apart and the car was " fettled" in the UK before I received it so I can't be absolutely sure which side they were fitted when it was in the States but the camber set up  or driver compensation seems sensible.
Is it worth keeping them for use in this country?

Regards Graham

Hi Graham

Never throw anything away, that's my motto.

Cheers
Andrew

[unclepete]

Andrew
Well that seems to have confirmed the 'camber offset theory'.
No doubt there will be a few dissenters!
By the way, I did do a few measurements around the front end. All the suspension components seem to be the same size left or right, it looks like its the chassis mounting points which are different. This would seem to make sense as you want the same reaction/loading points left to right.
have a look at yours Andrew and see if you think the same.
Peter

[Andrew Smith]

unclepete, on June 01 2005,11:15, said:

All the suspension components seem to be the same size left or right, it looks like its the chassis mounting points which are different.

Peter, that is very interesting and may give a clue to why the chassis clearance (measured from under the front suspension brace) on the near side measures 5½’’ and the driver's side is 5'’ (with tire pressures at 28lb all round).

I'll measure clearance from the chassis mounts and get back - it seems I may not have a problem after all.  

Thanks
Andrew

[unclepete]

Andrew
Try 3 1/4"!!!
Hence my fear of speed bumps and any other debris!
Peter

[Andrew Smith]

unclepete, on June 02 2005,09:40, said:

Andrew
Try 3 1/4"!!!
Hence my fear of speed bumps and any other debris!
Peter

Peter

Some say bigger isn't always better, but on this occasion I would have to agree – give me 5½’’ any day!

Cheers
Andrew

[unclepete]

Andrew
Something else worth looking at.
You mentioned your measurements were from the floor to the wheel arch.
Try measuring from your suspension points and chassis to the floor and see how far out they are from left to right. And then the same to the body panels.
I have found very little difference between chassis and suspension points to ground level (1/4" side to side) but still an inch to the body panels.
I have been told sidescreen panels move about quite a bit but would have thought an inch (inch and a 1/4 in your case) was excesive.
It's especially annoying when your pride and joy developes a noticeable list, even if you havn't had a chance to get to the beer tent. (hope all your events this year are on grass)
Let me know what you find.
Regards
Peter

[Neil]

Andrew,

My car has a 'list' towards the drivers side too and I have been wondering about it. It came up on Sunday when a few of us from the TR register met up at the Woking classic car show yesterday.

The drivers side of 59 3A is lower by 1/2'' both front and rear.

n/s/f = 25.5, o/s/f =  25
n/s/r = 24.5,  o/s/r = 24

So the drivers side being lower ties up with the other results here, except mine is a US import. It has been converted to be RH drive. The restoration was carried out by the Scottish TR centre (no longer in existence I believe) in about 1995. I don't know if as part of the restoration, when changing the steering over, they also made the drivers side 1/2'' lower all round .....

A chap said to me yesterday, he thought the drivers side should be slightly higher, so that with just a driver onboard the car would be even, hence the list on mine going 'probably' the wrong way ....

have I thickened the plot enough?

N