[john]

Hi Folks,

whats the latest thinking on a fire extinguisher to carry in the car?

My Halon one, still unused is old now, what should I replace it with and hiow big?

john.

[kevinw]

By way of a story, rather than a straight answer, but I think there's a clear message.

I used to own a coach company. My garage / depot was next to a fire station and I used to chat to the firemen quite often. Buses and coaches are required by law to carry fire extinguishers and they are required to be of a specific type (suitable for ordinary fires, fuel and electrical) and minimum size with the corrent BS / EN numbers on them. The smallest is about 4 inches in diamer and around 10 inches in height.

I asked the advice of the firemen on whether it would make sense to uprade to a larger size. Their advice was that any extinguisher that will cope with a decent fire in a motor vehicle is too big to be carried on that vehicle and that I should just stick with the minimum that complied with the law and ensure that I and all my drivers were well briefed on how to evacuate a vehicle and get the pax to safety quickly in the event of a fire.

Regards

Kevin

[Nick Webster]

john, on Jan 9 2009, 09:42 PM, said:

Hi Folks,

whats the latest thinking on a fire extinguisher to carry in the car?

My Halon one, still unused is old now, what should I replace it with and hiow big?

john.

Apart from the already suggested good advice - bail out and leave it, there are some times when a little fire can be prevented from getting bigger. As you have probably realised you cannot get Halon anymore. CO2 is useless outside since it just gets blown away or rises with the heat. Foam requires you to make a complete unbroken covering over the fire so is best used on pools of petrol on the ground. This leaves powder, which makes a hell of a mess, but can be fired through the grille if the engine is on fire. Get as big as you can afford and can accomodate. Make sure it has a gauge to show if pressure has leaked away. With powder, every now and then give it a good shake to prevent compaction. If you are planning to get one the size of an air freshener spray then forget about it altogether.

Nick

[Alec Pringle]

Hi John,

Halon is about as good as it gets, but stupendously ozone-unfriendly, hence it's now banned and has been for some years.

Kevin's and Nick's advice is all perfectly sound.

If it's a fuel fire, you've got virtually no chance of knocking it down, just get the heck out of it.

If it's an oil leak fire, or an electrical fire, you've got at least a small chance of knocking it down.

Underbonnet fire, blast it through the grill - don't open the bonnet or you'll have a fireball.

You need a 1kg powder extinguisher to make much of an impact, 2kg is better. Anything smaller is more of a danger than a help, misplaced confidence. You'll have a window of opportunity lasting maybe 10-15 seconds at best, so the only place to mount the red canister is in front of the passenger seat. Forget the boot, by the time you've opened it . . . it's too late.

Look at it this way, that extinguisher may not save the car - it may give your passenger an extra few seconds to get out of the explosion zone, or to drag out the dog, or irreplaceable luggage. If it's replaceable luggage, just forget it !

And of course, you may save someone else - I pulled over a TR5 I was following once, coming home from Donington, underbody fire from gearbox leak onto a rag left there accidentally. If I hadn't leapt out with extinguisher and hit the fire under the car, driver and passenger would have probably been hurt in the time it took to get out. As it was that 1kg of Halon saved them and the car, all I got was minor burn.

Cheers,

Alec

[foster461]

Alec Pringle, on Jan 9 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

Hi John,

Halon is about as good as it gets, but stupendously ozone-unfriendly, hence it's now banned and has been for some years.

Kevin's and Nick's advice is all perfectly sound.

If it's a fuel fire, you've got virtually no chance of knocking it down, just get the heck out of it.

If it's an oil leak fire, or an electrical fire, you've got at least a small chance of knocking it down.

Underbonnet fire, blast it through the grill - don't open the bonnet or you'll have a fireball.

You need a 1kg powder extinguisher to make much of an impact, 2kg is better. Anything smaller is more of a danger than a help, misplaced confidence. You'll have a window of opportunity lasting maybe 10-15 seconds at best, so the only place to mount the red canister is in front of the passenger seat. Forget the boot, by the time you've opened it . . . it's too late.

Look at it this way, that extinguisher may not save the car - it may give your passenger an extra few seconds to get out of the explosion zone, or to drag out the dog, or irreplaceable luggage. If it's replaceable luggage, just forget it !

And of course, you may save someone else - I pulled over a TR5 I was following once, coming home from Donington, underbody fire from gearbox leak onto a rag left there accidentally. If I hadn't leapt out with extinguisher and hit the fire under the car, driver and passenger would have probably been hurt in the time it took to get out. As it was that 1kg of Halon saved them and the car, all I got was minor burn.

Cheers,

Alec

Not sure if these are legal/available in the UK but I have one of these in my TR6. A fire extinguisher is required for some shows and I figure it might help save someone from even more serious injury in the case of a fire or accident.

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProduct...amp;SortOrder=2

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Stan,

I've heard of Halguard as a halon substitute, but I'm not aware of it being available in Europe - whether that's for reasons of marketing or legislation I know not.

In England there are all sorts of motorsport extinguisher options, foam and powder, varying from 'not cheap' to 'damn expensive' - and they're restricted by what's allowed in motorsport.

For a road car, I'm quite happy to look to the Aldi or Lidl supermarket offers that turn up a couple of times a year - old fashioned powder extinguishers that'll deal adequately with an electrical or minor oil fire. A 1kg unit is about £10, a 2kg around £20, and the last ones I bought included a mounting clamp to fix it to the floor. Bargain, enough to knock down a minor fire, that'll do. Anything more serious like a fuel fire and even a 10kg unit won't do anything worthwhile. Just get the hell out, and leave it burning, that's what your insurance is for.

As for Moss prices - $170 for a 0.7kg extinguisher, and $50 for a clamp ? You cannot be serious . . . . sorry mate, but in my book that's taking the mick.

Cheers,

Alec

[foster461]

Alec Pringle, on Jan 9 2009, 08:45 PM, said:

Hi Stan,

I've heard of Halguard as a halon substitute, but I'm not aware of it being available in Europe - whether that's for reasons of marketing or legislation I know not.

In England there are all sorts of motorsport extinguisher options, foam and powder, varying from 'not cheap' to 'damn expensive' - and they're restricted by what's allowed in motorsport.

For a road car, I'm quite happy to look to the Aldi or Lidl supermarket offers that turn up a couple of times a year - old fashioned powder extinguishers that'll deal adequately with an electrical or minor oil fire. A 1kg unit is about £10, a 2kg around £20, and the last ones I bought included a mounting clamp to fix it to the floor. Bargain, enough to knock down a minor fire, that'll do. Anything more serious like a fuel fire and even a 10kg unit won't do anything worthwhile. Just get the hell out, and leave it burning, that's what your insurance is for.

As for Moss prices - $170 for a 0.7kg extinguisher, and $50 for a clamp ? You cannot be serious . . . . sorry mate, but in my book that's taking the mick.

Cheers,

Alec

These units are expensive although they do look nice in Stainless... I think I paid around $120 for the extinguisher with bracket which clamps to my roll bar. I really wanted something that would not make a mess when used, and I agree, if we are beyond a minor electrical fire it is time to get out of Dodge fast and keep the insurance up to date.

Stan

[PJM]

Quick search on google reveals this company who can supply both 2 kg and 1 kg at under £20 including brackets, usual disclaimers etc

http://www.fireprotectiononline.co.uk/safe...e-extinguisher/

[john.r.davies]

foster461, on Jan 10 2009, 06:05 AM, said:

.... the extinguisher with bracket which clamps to my roll bar.
Stan

Stan,
If you roll over, or even just come to a sudden stop, then where will that extinguisher be? It won't be on the roll bar, and it will probably be a 1kg plus missile rocketing around the cabin. Mount an FE as low as possible, and NOT on a spring clip. The mount should have an over-center buckle, so that there is a chance it will stay in place.

On using FEs, I have, once, when I saw lads running away from a wooden bus shelter that they had just set on fire with a firework. My tiny glove pocket FE dealt with it! I have a bigger one now for the modern car
And I did once sin, by lifting the bonnet of a car that was smoking badly from underneath. The owner (NOT me!) had forgotten to take off the blanket he had laid over the engine, 'coz it had been a frosty night! Fortunately, the blanket had only got to the stage of intense smouldering.

Please note that the MSA (who should know) does not approve dry powder FEs, only AFFF (Aqueous film forming foam) or ZERO 2000, and in a minimum size, even for hand-held FEs, of 1.75litres. And if you say, that's for racing, not road use, what's the difference if you collide with the street furniture?
John

[foster461]

john.r.davies, on Jan 10 2009, 05:26 AM, said:

If you roll over, or even just come to a sudden stop, then where will that extinguisher be? It won't be on the roll bar, and it will probably be a 1kg plus missile rocketing around the cabin. Mount an FE as low as possible, and NOT on a spring clip. The mount should have an over-center buckle, so that there is a chance it will stay in place.

Valid concerns John. My extinguisher is attached to the bottom of the vertical support and is behind the driver seat. It has a hefty bracket with a locking clip that secures it to the bracket. If I roll over or hit something hard enough to turn it into a projectile I think that will be the least of my worries !.

Stan

[johnny250]

john, on Jan 9 2009, 09:42 PM, said:

Hi Folks,

whats the latest thinking on a fire extinguisher to carry in the car?

My Halon one, still unused is old now, what should I replace it with and hiow big?

john.

I fitted a 2 Litre foam extinguisher into the boot, not wanting to tempt any passer by, with it in full view. After spending half a day looking for best buy on the web and adding on cost of delivery, I looked in yellow pages and found a local company (one man outfit) who delivered it to my door within half an hour at rather less cost too! Sometimes it does pay to 'buy locally'

john

This post has been edited by johnny250: 11 January 2009 - 04:05 PM

[johnny250]

john, on Jan 9 2009, 09:42 PM, said:

Hi Folks,

whats the latest thinking on a fire extinguisher to carry in the car?

My Halon one, still unused is old now, what should I replace it with and hiow big?

john.

[john.r.davies]

foster461, on Jan 10 2009, 01:02 PM, said:

Valid concerns John. My extinguisher is attached to the bottom of the vertical support and is behind the driver seat. It has a hefty bracket with a locking clip that secures it to the bracket. If I roll over or hit something hard enough to turn it into a projectile I think that will be the least of my worries !.

Stan

I should know you better, Stan, but it was worth saying!
John

[ianc]

It's well worth having an electrical isolator switch situated within the driving compartment, because you can then quickly reduce the risk of electrical fires from short circuits - there's a heck of a lot of energy stored in your battery!
I have an extinguisher mounted on the floor in front of the passenger seat, secured with an over-centre clip. The extinguisher has a small dial gauge to tell me whether (or not) it is in good condition.
Ian Cornish

[john]

Thanks for ALL the replies guys.

Much appreciated.

John.

[moe and ess]

Alec Pringle, on Jan 10 2009, 01:45 AM, said:

Hi Stan,

I've heard of Halguard as a halon substitute, but I'm not aware of it being available in Europe - whether that's for reasons of marketing or legislation I know not.

In England there are all sorts of motorsport extinguisher options, foam and powder, varying from 'not cheap' to 'damn expensive' - and they're restricted by what's allowed in motorsport.

For a road car, I'm quite happy to look to the Aldi or Lidl supermarket offers that turn up a couple of times a year - old fashioned powder extinguishers that'll deal adequately with an electrical or minor oil fire. A 1kg unit is about £10, a 2kg around £20, and the last ones I bought included a mounting clamp to fix it to the floor. Bargain, enough to knock down a minor fire, that'll do. Anything more serious like a fuel fire and even a 10kg unit won't do anything worthwhile. Just get the hell out, and leave it burning, that's what your insurance is for.

As for Moss prices - $170 for a 0.7kg extinguisher, and $50 for a clamp ? You cannot be serious . . . . sorry mate, but in my book that's taking the mick.

Cheers,

Alec

I'm with you Alec,I got ours from Lidl and they fit nicely in the 7s, Esthers one between the seats on the back panel and mine in the passenger footwell of the dhc.
Really good value for money
Regards
Moe

[BrianC]

I recently posted some experiences on a similar thread, but they may be worth repeating here.

I would definitely recommend fitting a decent-size fire extinguisher within easy reach. Fortunately, when Lynda's TR4A decided to spontaneously combust (due to a loose or split rubber fuel pipe or filter above the dynamo), we were able to grab the extinguisher from its holder in the passenger footwell, although it was not large enough to deal with the blaze and far more damage occurred as it reignited and spread before a local passer-by fetched another one from a nearby garage. This fire extinguisher had been fitted by the previous owner and was replaced by a larger one, and an identical one subsequently fitted in the same location in my TR3A.

If the fire is (as it probably will be) under bonnet, only open wide enough to aim the extinguisher in, otherwise the fresh intake of air (oxygen) will feed even a small fire and turn it into an inferno.
As someone else pointed out on that thread, if you have a sidescreen car, keep your 'coach key' at hand in the door cutout as that will be the time consuming issue, not the extinguisher. (It also puts me off fitting period leather bonnet straps).

I must warn rebuilders not to be complacent during the the early days of euphoria - I'd hate to think of all that excellent (and expensive) work going up in flames.

After our experience with Lynda's TR4A I have been checking fuel connections on both cars on a regular basis far more thoroughly than in the past. I have found a distinct tendency for rubber fuel pipes to leak at the joints during the first few hundred miles and the clamps seem to need regular tightening after replacing any of them. The problem may be a result of modern rubber composition, as I never experienced this in the past.

I have had the same problem with both cars, and if I had not been checking, either one could have ended in a bonfire. I am also in the process of replacing some of the clamps with 'proper' screw-type clamps (like mini-Jubilee clips) as I have found the non-screw, straight push-on connector types (does anyone know what these are called?) do not grip tight enough and allow seepage after a short time (a major hassle if away from home, as there is no way to tighten them). I suspect these are intended for use with flared pipe ends rather than onto standard fuel pipe or carb inlets.

Choice of location for a fire extinguisher is difficult, but I would agree with John ('johnny250') that it's probably not a good idea to make it too easily accessible to passers-by if your car is often left open. Like Alec, although there was conflicting advice, I opted to stick with the powder variety as it had done such a good job in our case, even though it was a fuel fire. The only downside was that the extinguisher was not really big enough and although we replaced it with a 1Kg one, I suspect it should really be 2Kg. At the time, as Machine Mart had a special offer on them, we bought 1Kg FEs for each of our cars, although I confess I never got around to fitting them to the daily drivers on the basis that if anything happens, we bail out fast and let them burn and collect the insurance. We did however, invest in a fire blanket for each car as one of these would probably have finished off the TR4A fire as it was the air filters that were still burning and we had to close the bonnet again and ended up with horrible damage to the paintwork. Having bought a 2Kg FE for the garage, I feel this sixe would be too bulky in the footwell, so as we have some spares, I am considering putting a second 1 Kg FE in each TR. Although the pressure gauge needs to be checked regularly, there is always a possibility of failure in action so this would provide a reserve, 'just in case'.