Should LTD fasteners have words on them?

[Ian Lucraft]

I've bought a new tonneau from SC Parts to replace the existing LHD converted one!

 

The existing one has LTD clips which have the words Lift the Dot stamped in them.

The pack that has come with the tonneau has no writing on.

I see on the web that ones with writing on are available

What were the originals like, please. With words or plain?

Thanks

Ian

[Don H.]

The originals were stamped LIFT-THE-DOT. Modern versions of DOT fasteners made by Scovill Fasteners have the same imprint as always, although the tooling doesn't seem quite as sharp if one gets anoraky. Here's an image of a modern LTD fastener. Click on the image for full size.

[Don H.]

Here's an original LTD on a TR3A, TS66XXXL:

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Don,

 

I'm not convinced that ALL originals were pukka stamped Lift The Dot . . . . . I have in the past seen factory packaged items from the 1960s (previously unopened) that contained plain unstamped fasteners . . . . No ifs, no buts, StanPart fasteners plain unstamped.

 

I suspect that these may have come from a secondary supplier, usual emergency back-up supply problems in times of industrial disputes or whatever, and if so then presumably North America would have received the correct items and the secondary option would have gone on UK, Europe or RoW destined production - whether built in UK, Belgium or wherever CKD cars were assembled.

 

Or maybe the plain items had simply been sent out to dealers as spares in times of short supply ?

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Ian Lucraft]

Thanks everyone.

Now this car was built for US export and came back with this existing tonneau, which was modified in the UK on its return in 2003.

 

Another point, please guys....

 

Don;s photos show two tonneau both with cut outs at the shoulders on each side. The green car photo is exactly like my existing tonneau.

 

The one supplied to me now from SC Parts does not have these cut outs and is like the two photos on page 64 of Bill Piggott's book.

Comments and advice please?

 

By the way, this car had a replacement age correct restored short block fitted in 2003 which was apparently purchased from Bill Pigott by the English man who re-imported it .

It runs like a dream.

Forum says it won't allow my .jpg format to upload a shot of the existing tonneau, but I have taken the clip from the same photo I use here my my signature photo.

 

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

Ian

[Ian Lucraft]

Thanks Don and Alec,

 

Do you have an idea which supplier will have the ones with the words on please Alec?

Thanks

Ian

[Don H.]

...Don;s photos show two tonneau both with cut outs at the shoulders on each side. The green car photo is exactly like my existing tonneau.

 

The one supplied to me now from SC Parts does not have these cut outs and is like the two photos on page 64 of Bill Piggott's book.

Comments and advice please?...

 

Ian, one of the more useful references on tonneaux is from Charles Runyan's The Roadster Factory catalog:

http://trf.zeni.net/wc/specials11.20/10.php

 

For a "late" TR3A from 1959, I'd expect to find the tonneau with the side slits at the top of the dogleg. Note the one on my green TR3B is a reproduction from Robbins Auto Top via TRF.

 

Regarding originality -- I have no doubt what Alec reports regarding in-period spares is true for a LOT of what Standard-Triumph and Stanpart were doing. After all, they were tryin to sell cars, and keep cars on the road, and what we now consider originality wasn't remotely of concern back then.

 

FWIW, TRF sell LTDs with imprint. Dunno about Moss in USA but wouldn't be surprised if they're the real ones as well. I'm sure this kind are available in the UK, too.

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Ian,

 

haven't a clue, sorry about that, but I'm sure one of the sidescreen regulars will chip in with the answer.

 

Presumably the SC Parts version is yet another some sort of repro, just not denoted as such ?

 

I prefer dealing with TR specialists I can rely on. Moss, TR Shop, TR Bitz, TR Trader, TR Enterprises, Revingtons, Racetorations, TRGB, Robsport . . . . . and others of course. They don't always get it right first time, of course, any more than I do - but nor do they have a problem in sorting things out.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Fireman049]

Does it matter is the fasteners have the words stampeded on them if they work????

 

Tom.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Fireman049

[vivdownunder]

At TR3A TS41742 the soft top shape around the sidescreens changed with a corresponding revision to the Lift the Dot peg layout. At the same time a revised tonneau cover was released with an overlap at the back of the door.. You can see how it works from the photo of Don's green car.

 

Viv

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Tom,

 

no of course it doesn't matter, as far as I'm concerned any damn fastener than keeps the hood down and the water out will do just fine.

 

But we all have different priorities, some folks like the fine detail of concours restoration, some of us couldn't give a monkey's.

 

Me, I try and avoid concours displays, they give me a headache . . . . and about as much appeal as a gay bar. Not my scene, man.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[RUBY131]

With you on that Alec, if it works and looks O.K. use it . Just had my car fine tuned by Stephen at Tipton Garage, Tipton St John Devon, they have done a great job, they have a rolling road and also race classics themselves. Well impressed. Cheers Chris

[RogerH]

Hi Ian,

Woolies suppply the LtD with the wording www.woolies-trim.co.uk/product/18/lift-the-dot-fastener

 

 

Roger

[Ian Lucraft]

I'm new to this forum, as you can see. Bought a TR3 when I was 21 for a couple of years, and now 50 years later have bought a second for the duration. I don't have any bodywork skills, though I did rebuild the crank, diff and loom on the first one 50 years ago.

 

So I wanted a nice rust-free reasonably priced TR3 that I could enjoy, look at, lovingly care for, but most of all DRIVE. And drive in all weathers, not left locked in a garage. I'm definitely not into concours, though I respect those who keep the faith, both for their diligence and for their contribution to the TR community as they act as a fount of knowledge for us. What I got was a re-import from the US, converted to RHD, upgraded in the engine department with all the sensible things you'd want, and with a degree of that "nothing is ever as it should be" feeling. (eg post 60k floor at back on pre 60k car.)

 

I'm retired on a small fragmented pension, so as I try to make small improvements to the car I want to spend my money carefully. SC parts have a picture in their catalogue which shows a tonneau with cuts at the elbows, but that is not what they sent. They have sent an earlier version, as is clear in the above thread. So I am grateful for everyone's help in tying things down before I pick up the phone to them. (I do usually use Rimmers, TR Shop and MOSS, but on this occasion wanted the Everflex tonneau.)

 

At the same time I want to be able to ask about the LTDs. I shan't weep if I don't fit ones with the writing, but given that I am going to fit new ones to the new tonneau anyway, they might as well be "right" whatever that means. And this is an object lesson in the fact that "Right" is not always clear. This was a US export car, so Alec's very helpful observation about how Triumph treated US exports means that it could be "as original" to have the writing, while for a UK car it could be "as original" to have them plain. What else is a forum for? Why do we love these cars?

 

But putting all that aside, I realize that we don't always know the details of each other's cars, nor our attitude to concours or not, nor the options available to us. In that context having a forum that is open and supportive and helpful is a fantastic benefit and one of the 'triumphs' of the TR Register offer. So it is with some sadness that we see some of the negative comments, which verge on hostile, and in particular to find homophobic comments in the forum. I shall not make a formal complaint, but I may decide reluctantly to withdraw if I find it is a place where the anonymity of social media encourages such comments.

 

I really am grateful for the positive help and advice and referrals. But guys, lets be nice to each other, and not demonise others. Thanks

[TR 2100]

In that context having a forum that is open and supportive and helpful is a fantastic benefit and one of the 'triumphs' of the TR Register offer. So it is with some sadness that we see some of the negative comments, which verge on hostile, and in particular to find homophobic comments in the forum. I shall not make a formal complaint, but I may decide reluctantly to withdraw if I find it is a place where the anonymity of social media encourages such comments.

Ian,

 

You would be hard pushed to find anyone more helpful than Alec.

And not just on the Forum.

We all know his style - can appear forceful but never hostile.

 

Homophobic comment - vaguely, and not a reference I would make,

but not a big deal IMO and certainly not anonymous.

 

AlanR

[Paul Down]

Ian,

 

You would be hard pushed to find anyone more helpful than Alec.

And not just on the Forum.

We all know his style - can appear forceful but never hostile.

 

Homophobic comment - vaguely, and not a reference I would make,

but not a big deal IMO and certainly not anonymous.

 

AlanR

 

+1

Well said!

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Ian,

 

If there's one thing that has always distinguished the TR Register from so many car clubs, it's the fact that we are such a broad church.

 

The cars are the stars, be they concours trailer queens or junkyard dog sprinters, and we have ample room for anything and everything between.

 

It's not the golf club, we don't really give a toss about each other's day jobs, or what the daily driver might be, let alone political affiliations, or the choice of partners. It takes all sorts, and doubtless we have most of them amongst our 6,000 members !

 

And that's without all those other Forum contributors who are not necessarily members . . . . .

 

How on earth Ian perceives " we see some of the negative comments, which verge on hostile " escapes me, there's nothing been written more than brusque tongue-in-cheek humour as far as I can see. Nothing new about coarse TR versus concours TR ribaldry, and nothing to take umbrage let alone offence over.

 

As for " and in particular to find homophobic comments in the forum." which I presume refers to my comment . . . . on your bloody bike, pal.

 

How dare you extrapolate one flippant line to a generalised lifestyle comment ? I lived through the 1970s in Brighton, the years when the gay community was just beginning to edge its way out of the closet, and the gay blokes in particular were getting a hard time from the far right thugs who abounded locally. It was my ilk, those of us 'straights' who'd toured Europe and the World with rock bands and race teams, knew how to look after ourselves and others, who rescued the innocents from the undesirables time and again.

 

Homophobic I am not, although I do take exception to all the silly drama queens of whichever gender who seem to need to make such a song and dance about their preferences . . . . rather than just getting on with life the way that most folks do. Unnecessary attention seeking.

 

The 'gay bar' remark referenced a rather naff pop song of a dozen years or so back, and also referenced the traditional 'gay bar' cattle markets which used to thrive in the seedier corners of many a city, back in the days when gays were perforce corralled into such locations. There shouldn't be any need or place for that sort of scene these days, just as there's never been much if any any place for 'golf club' socialite attitudes amongst TR folks.

 

Next time, Ian, please read between the lines a tad more thoughtfully before sounding off in trumpets . . . . .

 

And no, I haven't taken umbrage, let alone offence, so clamber on back aboard and keep your hair on, as previously noted we're a broad church and not given to worrying unduly about the odd ruffled feather . . . . .

 

Cheers

 

Alec

Edited March 25, 2018 by Alec Pringle

[John Morrison]

hi ian.

 

you have a PM, thats a personal message,

click onthe small envelope in the top right of the page to read.

 

John.

[Fireman049]

Very well said Alec ~

 

Tom.

[Ian Lucraft]

Thank you Alec for a very tolerant and understanding response. I am most grateful.

You were most helpful to me in the thread, as I said, and I am grateful to you for your robust and magnanimous response.

I don't want to fall out with people.... in fact I very much want to enjoy the cameraderie of the cars...

If you are at Lincoln, I hope I could buy you a drink?

Best wishes

 

Ian

 

(PS SC PARTS have agreed to take pack the tonneau)

[Don H.]

...(PS SC PARTS have agreed to take pack the tonneau)

 

That's what I'd have done too, Ian. If your car had a side-slit tonneau originally, and they're available, why not?

 

I'm one of those who enjoys originality. Not a slave to concours (which I don't do), just the fun of going back in time. I have modern cars with all the modern conveniences -- and that's not why I have the TR! One of the advantages of that is that all the old maintenance, wiring and parts guides apply perfectly to my car.

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Ian,

 

normal sort of TR response, that's all !! We're not a bad bunch of blighters . . . . .

 

My still being here at Lincoln, let alone drinking beer, would be pretty damn high on the miracle scale - I should have been six foot under months ago.

 

But hey, I'll raise a glass to your continued good health this evening, albeit an alcohol free droppie . . . . hooch and heavy chemo doesn't mix.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[T Rusty]

My TR3A has a Moss tonneau. I put the LTDs on years ago. Where the two elbow flaps overlap I find the peg a bit too short. The top flap lifts off at anything over about 40 mph. Is there a longer peg availabie or did I do something wrong? Thanks, Paul

[Don H.]

My TR3A has a Moss tonneau. I put the LTDs on years ago. Where the two elbow flaps overlap I find the peg a bit too short. The top flap lifts off at anything over about 40 mph. Is there a longer peg availabie or did I do something wrong? Thanks, Paul

 

I have the original style LTD studs too, Paul, and the modern grommet I have mounted is a bit thicker than the originals were so mine too tends to pop off. I mounted two nylon washers under the LTD stud, which gives it a bit of stand off from the body and looks indistinguishable from original. Those 2-4 mm give enough to keep the LTD secure over the grommet.

 

Here's what mine looks like. Click for large image.

 

Here's the original side-slit grommet on a TR3A tonneau. The originals are flatter when attached and have a larger inside diameter for the given outside diameter I couldn't find this size in anything new -- whatever it is eluded me. My modern grommet has the same OD, but a smaller ID.

 

Here's what my modern grommet looks like. You can see the rolled inner edge where my setting tool gives a raised lip. It's that lip and the smaller ID that leads the LTD stud to pop off.

[stuart]

Woolies do a longer version of both stud and self tap versions of the LTD studs https://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/category/58/lift-the-dot

Stuart.