RogerH Posted February 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Thanks for that Alan, Just looking at the Moss WebCat and note that they supply uprated valve springs as standard - I wonder how uprated. I may dig out the original springs from my 1990's engine rebuild and compare. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Roger Revingtons suggest that you should have the weakest springs you can get away with. And that you start to uprate when high revs are used 6000 + You just need to make sure there is no spring binding. H Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Hi Hamish, I've also heard that recently elsewhere. I shall do some digging on Monday. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 FWIW having completely killed a set of valve springs I fitted a set of Racetorations progressive uprated valve springs and they have done sterling service in all conditions for the last 8yrs. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Hi Hamish, I've also heard that recently elsewhere. I shall do some digging on Monday. Roger Roger You have enough on your hands I found this as s start https://www.revingtontr.com/product.asp?productid=301466&affiliateid= And an extract ..... When installing a camshaft, to avoid excessive and premature lobe wear it is important to use valve springs which provide the correct seat pressure. We recommend standard spring pressure, certainly no more unless you are consistently revving to 7000RPM! Only just enough spring pressure is required to ensure the valve stays closed when it should be, without valve bounce. Any more is too much and will put unnecessary load on the camshaft lobes, possibly resulting in premature lobe failure. When choosing valve springs it is also important to check that the extra lift of our performance camshafts does not result in coil binding on full lift. This should be checked (even with standard camshafts) with the head and the valve gear assembled and valve clearance correctly set. It should be possible to leaver down the valve by an extra 3mm for safety with the valve at full lift. Please see the appropriate catalogue section for a range of suitable springs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silverfox4 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Hi Roger I'm watching this one closely. After establishing the stock 4A cam as 17/57 57/17 and then searching here. Your info on the cam pulley sizing led me to the PH1 vs BP270. Just a few days ago, I ordered the Piper BP270. It will be a few months before I know, but sure hope I made the right or reasonable choice - long distance customer service fr5om suppliers kind made the choice. I look forward to your outcome, as essentially I want the same - stock idle, torque and town driving performance Go well, Alf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Den T Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 FWIW having completely killed a set of valve springs I fitted a set of Racetorations progressive uprated valve springs and they have done sterling service in all conditions for the last 8yrs. Stuart. Time flies Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Hi Folks, hopefully I am getting to the bottom of all this chaos. Why did the new standard cam with new followers wear out in less than two years. Why does the TT1104N behave so vigorously Why is there only one lake in the Lake District. Today I pulled the newly fitted TT1104N cam. It looked perfect as do the followers. Upon measuring the lobes I'm sure they came up at 0.290" lift. But!!!! the paperwork suggests 0.260" - that is quite a difference. I'll re-check tomorrow. The Newman cam is exactly as per the paperwork. I chickened out regarding holding the followers up with magnets and removed the head. The new cam is fitted but not timed - AND then it started to rain. Before calling it a day I removed a valve spring from the new (2 years old) head. I have a few old sets of original springs and wanted to compare the stiffness. Here are some dimensions for the outer spring- New Moss head spring Old /Original spring Outside Diameter 1.25" 1.380" Free length 1.875" 2" Wire diameter 0.158" 0.158" No of coils 4 to 5 7 to 8 I could not check the compression force with absolute values but for a similar movement of compression the hand force required for the new spring was nearly double the old spring. The new spring is significantly stiffer than the old spring. This may be why the new standard cam of two years ago had such a short life. So what have I discovered. The new moss head uses stiffer more sportier springs. Good for the racer boys - bad for standard cams (Perhaps there should be a warning) The New TT1104N cam may or may not be what it is meant to be (I'll recheck the lobe lift tomorrow). 0.260 to 0.290 is quite a big difference and may account for the rough running (coupled with the 108' installation angle - may be better with 110 or greater to calm it down) Tomorrow I shall start to put it all back together - Wednesday could be fun. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 With half the No. of coils, but the same wire dia I am not surprised it was stiffer ! Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hi Folks, I fitted the old/original springs from a previous head rebuild to the Moss head. I was surprised to find the exhaust were triple springs. Even these three springs together needed a lower force to squeeze them down than the New Moss head springs needed. So tomorrow I'll time the cam/crank/watch using the new vernier cam wheel and put it all back together. I was hoping to have it buttoned up by Wednesday afternoon but it may well be Thursday now. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 We are all looking forward to your next episode Roger. ( well I am. Trying to learn TR stuff all the time. ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hi Hamish, what amazes me is that even with a fair few years experience of buying parts I'm still fooled by the suppliers not giving all the useful info. When I bought the Kent cam I wasn't told about the rough tickover etc etc. All I wanted was a decent standard cam - they could not tell me anything about its pedigree. When I bought the head 2 years ago I was not aware what the uprated valve springs would/could do. Why are they uprated? I now know that softer springs may well be better than stiff springs - it depends on your driving needs. Still I'm getting closer to what I'm after. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Roger. I know I have said this before but you clearly have a lot of knowledge and skills yet still come across issues that have you scratching your head ! What hope for those like me that want to have a go but fear making it worse !!!! And when suppliers add to the stumbling blocks it only makes things worse. I have my fingers crossed for you H Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel C Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Upon measuring the lobes I'm sure they came up at 0.290" lift. But!!!! the paperwork suggests 0.260" - that is quite a difference. I'll re-check tomorrow. I cant believe that there's such a difference in the lift measurements. Do you think this has just been marked up wrongly/dispatched wrongly or is this just more wool that is being pulled over their customers eyes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hi Nigel, I rechecked the TT1104N cam this morning and the lobes do have a lift of 0.290". I then looked at the paperwork and the words have magically shifted around and they now say 0.290". Hopefully tomorrow or Thursday I'll be able to report back better info. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hi Roger TT1004N STANDARD CAM WITH 0.260" LIFT TT1104N FAST ROAD/ HIGH TORQUE 0.290 " LIFT What did you ask for? Which was supplied? Which was written on the invoice/ box? Just a thought Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 I noticed the subtle numbering difference when I looked tonight. You could have something there Iain So will you be selling the 290 cam roger. Would it win me a sprint in my 3a ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) Hi Iain, where did you get your numbers? here is the Moss webcat https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/engine/engines-components/performance-camshafts-tr2-4a.html The TT1104N is described as the 'Road' cam with 0.290" lobe rise The TT1004N is described as the 'Fast Road' All very confusing. Roger Edited March 6, 2018 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) Flaming confusing hence I got it wrong but https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/camshaft-road-new-tt1104n.html Standard Road lift 0.260" install 108 And https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/camshaft-fast-road-new-tt1004n.html Fast road but now has 0.300 lift.!install 103 Still begs the question(s) Cheers Iain Edited March 6, 2018 by iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hamish the Kent Fast road is Ok it's a bit lumpy at tick over pulls like a train 2500 to too high for comfort. It loves to rev. Is it nice? Jury is out for me. I liked the low down torque of my original cam (knackered) coupled with the 4.1 :1 axle it makes a very responsive car. Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hi Iain, the numbers appear to be all over the place. No wonder a simple cam doesn't work as one would expect. Fingers crossed that the Newman PH1 behaves itself. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bulatovic Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hi Roger, really looking forward to hear how things went with Newman PH1 and really hope you get it sorted! where did you get the PH1 cam from? Cheers Luka Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) Hi Roger Scroll down to the table lower down the weblink you posted here https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/engine/engines-components/performance-camshafts-tr2-4a.html Cams are tabulated and say different things again. No wonder we are confused....so are they!!! Iain Edited March 6, 2018 by iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hi Iain, it's only numbers but it is just hard work to follow it. Hi Luka, contact Newman direct http://www.newman-cams.com/ Whatever cam you go with try and get the softest (original) valve springs. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hamish the Kent Fast road is Ok it's a bit lumpy at tick over pulls like a train 2500 to too high for comfort. It loves to rev. Is it nice? Jury is out for me. I liked the low down torque of my original cam (knackered) coupled with the 4.1 :1 axle it makes a very responsive car. Iain Iain A 4.1:1 rear diff. Now thats another ingredient to add to the mix hhhhmmmmmmmm Good luck roger. Hope it all works. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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