Special tr4a from Belgium

[William Zimmermann]

Hi

Would like to share my special find

 

TR4A irs delivered new in Germany in 66

 

1CTC with factory overdrive

 

Special :

 

- Neinman key system on steering Wheel colum

- Glass stamped "Verre trempe Belgique "

- Mixo Made in France horn

- Plate light lucas L567 with special support

 

The car stopped in 1980 for a head gasket failure

All original !

 

 

 

 

If anyone has information on those CKD - Completely Knocked Down cars - will be interesting.

What was really the purpose to send them in Belgium - tax ?overload plant ?

 

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by William Zimmermann

[Don H.]

Welcome to the forum, William. I take it you're in the US, and assuming Washington?

 

One of the resources that might help you find out more about the myriad export specifications differences is the US-based "Triumphs" list maintained old-skool by Mark Badakis and available for listserv signup at http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs. One of the correspondents there is John Maccartney, ex-Standard Triumph sales, export department. His memory is pretty good and he'll know some of the details about your car. Sign up for the Triumphs list, post your question, and he's sure to weigh in before long.

[silverfox4]

Welcome William. Good to see another one has surfaced as there were not that many Melignes assembled 4's. My 1967 registered (assembled 1966) is "1CTC 68252LO". I have not been able to get any information that could form the basis of a Heritage certificate, but the mission is ongoing.. I will also try the link provided by Don. A nice feature about them is the metric instrumentation

Cheers, enjoy

Alf

[William Zimmermann]

Alf

mine is 1CTC 68357LO...so very close !!!

 

will check the instrument but Speedometer for sure is in Miles.

[Don H.]

Fair warning... Although the "Triumphs" list has its value, including reaching a number of TR people in the US and Canada, it's nowhere near as informative or as functional as this forum.

[silverfox4]

Interesting how the world turns William, that is close. Mine was purchased in Brussels by a Diplomat who returned after a couple of years service.

 

Got your point Don, but I have already exhausted our good friends on this forum to boredom seeking info, so now wait cues from others - I hope William can make headway

[William Zimmermann]

Alf, mine has been sold new in Stuttgart, to US air force who returned in 68 in WA

I have heard that CKD were mostly dedicated to European delivery but free of tax for US expat. people

Both cars here are supported this assumption...

It is funny

Do you aslo hace the Neiman key, special glass, horn ?

I will post pictures later

 

Happy Christmas !

[graeme]

Hi William,

 

When I lived in the UK, I bought a 1963 TR4 which had been imported from USA. It turned out to be a basket case, however, researching its history, it had been a CKD car supplied to a US Medical Officer in Germany who had it shipped to Hawaii then to California before returning to the UK.

 

It was fitted with a steering column lock, MPH speedo, it had odd horns but I don't recall the make. I also noted metric fasteners in some places like the bumper irons.

 

Cheers

Graeme

[Guest]

Nice find!

Somehow, in the back of my mind, theres something about steering locks becoming mandatory on German cars (or imported into G) around that time. I remember my dad's 66 or 67 VW Beetle with a steering lock. A novalty then

Edited January 10, 2018 by Menno van Rij 2

[Marc R]

Hi William,

 

With a "1" before the prefix CTC, it is maybe a TR4 A IRS, CKD assembly in Belgium (factory Malines in French/Mechelen in Duch) for the European market in order to optimize/minimize the taxes for car assembled in continental Europe vs the car manufactured in UK.

At least it was the case for TR5 and 6 but I do not know for the TR4.(Ref. number cars identified in France and Belgium)

 

As per my information (local contacts in the '80/'90) and enquiries w/ British Heritage for my TR6 PI CP manufactured on this factory with the Pre-prefix 1 and su-sufix P" specific for the TR6 from Malines (In my case comm. 1CP53xxxLP):

- Info from BH: Archives from Malines/Mechelen are not available and British Heritage may only provide info related to the CKD parts prepared in UK and delivered to the Triumph factory in Belgium, not the configuration out of the factory delivered to the dealer and 1 owner.

- On top of, from this factory (Ref. local source ex-worker in Malines):

- It was possible to obtain specifics options like a different color (vs the defined ones for the specific model and year)if this color was part of the set of color available for Triumph (Other Triump were build ckd in Malines Herald 1200, TR3A.... 2000, maybe 2,5's, TR's, Spitfire, 1300). FYI and references : http://www.standardmotorclub.org.uk/page509.html

- the TR6 CP (at least the ones before '72 and mine), the color of the windscreen frame was body color as for the TR5 and not Black as for the other TR6.

 

Hope and which it may help you to future more investigate for your TR4 A IRS.

 

Regards

Edited December 26, 2017 by Marc R

[Chris59]

So many things can be "special" on a Triumph assembled in Malines : body colours, different accessoiries, paint/ulphostery combos, etc, could be taken from all the others models assembled in Maline, including, I have been told, from non Triumph cars.....

 

My own TR4A IRS is one of the very few who were painted in a sort of Bordeaux Red, a colour who wasn't in this model chart.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Chris59

[Marc R]

Another example, my TR6 PI CP '71 CKD Malines :

- was painted on Valecia Blue (definitively not a TR6 model color but a TR5 model color)including the windscreen frame. The rear valence and sill panels were in Black.

- The side mirror was the one w/ the TR5 badge design (or TR250 upside down)

- The steel road wheel on the boot was the one for the TR5 and 1st & early TR6 with the specific pins to clip the rostyle wheel trim, when the 4 others are the std one for the non early TR6, with the wheel equipped w/ the Black hub cap and red TR6 badge.

 

Regards.

[Chris59]

Another example, my TR6 PI CP '71 CKD Malines :

- The steel road wheel on the boot was the one for the TR5 and 1st & early TR6 with the specific pins to clip the rostyle wheel trim, when the 4 others are the std one for the non early TR6, with the wheel equipped w/ the Black hub cap and red TR6 badge.

 

Regards.

I seriously doubt that your TR6 left the factory with a different spare Wheel, Marc. Are you the first owner ?

[Marc R]

I seriously doubt that your TR6 left the factory with a different spare Wheel, Marc. Are you the first owner ?

Good remark... No, it can be a replacement from a TR5 or early TR6 with rostyle wheel trim, but when I acquired this TR6 in '86, the 4 tires where the same type Michelin and from the same manufacturing date '71 and made the (wrong) connection.

 

Toujours aussi perspicace JC.

[William Zimmermann]

Here attachments of special feature...

 

original Neimann key

 

original Glass

 

original horn

 

is that something special

this is a front bar at the top end of the chassis ...??

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by William Zimmermann

[William Zimmermann]

just for fun- the cylinder 4 after removing the head !!

 

 

[stuart]

Interesting and very over the top towing eyes, I suspect not original and may have been added at the time of shipping.to the US

Stuart.

[boxofbits]

Here attachments of special feature...

 

original Neimann key

2017-11-23 002.JPG

 

original Glass

2017-11-25 004.JPG

 

original horn

2017-11-25 006.JPG

 

is that something special

this is a front bar at the top end of the chassis ...??

 

2017-11-28 004.JPG

2017-11-28 005.JPG

Hi William

 

Interesting vehicle, and it seems the assembly plant in Malines had more freedom of choice with colours than the Coventry factory. I wonder if some parts might have been missing from the CKD on some occasions, hence the Mixo horn which was probably obtained locally ?

 

Is there any dating feature on the glass, as I know glass made by Indestructo and Triplex can be dated by certain dots or features around the brand name.

 

Interestingly, the instructions on the Neiman key are spelt in English but not necessarily well composed, so were these part of the CKD or sourced locally, and why in English? There must have been some legislation relating to the number plate lamps, as the home market as you know are placed in the overiders. Was it to be a certain distance from the number plate I wonder?

 

Regards

 

Kevin

Edited January 5, 2018 by boxofbits

[William Zimmermann]

Interestingly, the instructions on the Neiman key are spelt in English but not necessarily well composed :

 

Also something funny is that on the reverse side- there is the same instruction but in perfect French

The original place for the key has been very well closed by a rubber

 

I'm sure I will find other special things on this car.

 

 

It is always so exiting to find one owner car unrestored that has been stopped by a mechanical issue and store in proper condition awaiting a resurection

Right now I'm also buying a one owner Tr3A unrestored but this one is not a CKD

[boxofbits]

Yes nice find William and hope the TR3A is also of interest, and the older these cars get, so their history file increases exponentially.

 

Neiman locks were of course fitted to many export vehicles from the UK. I am currently restoring a Morris Minor van, and the parts manual for that and my Mk1 Mini show steering locks for continental destinations.

 

The first one I personally came across in Britain was on a 1971 Lime Green Morris Minor Traveller when carrying out a pre delivery check at a BL Dealer I worked for.

 

Regards

 

Kevin

[William Zimmermann]

this is an attachment of the reverse side of the key , with the French instruction

Never seen before a double language key...

 

 

I also forget to mention the "Talbot Berlin " bullet side Mirror

another nice enhancement

Edited January 7, 2018 by William Zimmermann

[stuart]

Hi William

 

Interesting vehicle, and it seems the assembly plant in Malines had more freedom of choice with colours than the Coventry factory. I wonder if some parts might have been missing from the CKD on some occasions, hence the Mixo horn which was probably obtained locally ?

 

Is there any dating feature on the glass, as I know glass made by Indestructo and Triplex can be dated by certain dots or features around the brand name.

 

Interestingly, the instructions on the Neiman key are spelt in English but not necessarily well composed, so were these part of the CKD or sourced locally, and why in English? There must have been some legislation relating to the number plate lamps, as the home market as you know are placed in the overiders. Was it to be a certain distance from the number plate I wonder?

 

Regards

 

Kevin

The number pate lamps in that position was I think determined by German and Swedish market rules at the time as they considered the originals didnt illuminate the plate enough.

Stuart.

[silverfox4]

Hi William,

No, my Malines 4A does not have the Neinman key. Menno probably has it right suggesting it only being required for German market. I would have to check the glass, though I did replace the windshield glass 2 years ago. The colour is Carmine (or Damson, or Burgundy??) and judging by the colour on the windshield frame it has not had a colour change. I don't believe that Carmine was a factory colour for the 66 TR4A.

Cheers

[Guest]

The brackets on the front end could be a reminiscence of a time when the car was towed by an RV. I have seen something similar on a later model, rubber bumper MGB that was imported into Holland from the USA. US members here know what I mean.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Menno van Rij 2

[RandallD]

I think Menno is correct on the towing addition, very likely a US addition for someone who wanted to add a temporary tow bar.