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Trunnion thrust washers


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Went to collect an order from my local Moss branch on Thursday. Included in the order were a set of thrust washers that fit either side of the trunnions.('64 TR4) I rejected them as 6 of the 8 were rusty. However, whilst checking them I noticed that they were also bent slightly. When I got home I cleaned up the old washers......they were all flat, as I suspected they would be, but I'm wondering if they should be slightly bent (dished?) so that they get crushed into shape when fitted. Looking in both w/shop manuals there doesnt appear to be any info on these parts other than the need to check the clearance between washers when re-assembling. Any comments folks. Thanks, Mike.

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Mike, It looks like you have the forum stumped for an answer. I dont know for certain but a dished washer would let water in and hasten corrosion.

So flat gets my vote, and liberal waxoyl upon assembly.

Watch out for poor seal between the trunnion and its pressed-in steel cap. If that join is not absolutely pressure-tight eg sealed wirh solder it will let the grease out and the thread fails to be lubricated.

Peter

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And without lubrication, it will seize. When I bought 4VC in 1969, one trunnion already had limited movement and when I dismantled the suspension, I was unable to unwind the trunnion from the vertical link, even when I applied some heat. I had to buy a new pair.

Ian Cornish

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Mike, It looks like you have the forum stumped for an answer. I dont know for certain but a dished washer would let water in and hasten corrosion.

So flat gets my vote, and liberal waxoyl upon assembly.

Watch out for poor seal between the trunnion and its pressed-in steel cap. If that join is not absolutely pressure-tight eg sealed wirh solder it will let the grease out and the thread fails to be lubricated.

Peter

 

post-12009-0-14825400-1484645698_thumb.jpg
Bob
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“And without lubrication, it will seize”

And then you can end up with a snapped vertical link, which is one of the most dangerous and frightening things that can happen when you are driving along. (Been there…)

 

I did a similar soldering job on my trunions.

Just make sure that you clean the surfaces up completely before you solder.

 

The problem you will get, if the trunions have ever been used, is that oil or grease will have got between the joint of the trunion and the steel base.

 

Even if all looks clean, as soon as you apply heat the oil/grease will seep out from the joint and stop the solder from flowing.

 

You need to clean it, heat it, clean it, heat it until no more oil/grease comes out of the joint. Only then think of applying flux and solder.

 

Charlie D.

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Hi Mike,

regarding the original question.

I rebuilt mine two years ago and those thrust washers were flat (old and new).

Having them dished would serve no purpose other than act as some sort of lock nut type spring - which they are not,

 

I can see how they get dished - when the tooling gets worn it does not give a clean cut.

 

Roger

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Thanks chaps.....update: Whilst waiting for Moss to come up with some decent thrust washers I decided to get as far as I could with rebuilding the suspension. First job, fit the grease/oil nipples to the trunnions (I had already sealed the end caps). Nipples wouldn't fit. Checked the threads, 1/8 BSP on nipples which is correct, 3/8 UNF in trunnion end caps. I have both sizes of taps but there is insufficient meat in the end cap to take the correct thread. So, back down to Moss, fortunately they are only 20 mins away, traffic willing. They were at a loss to provide an explanation and had no alternative nipples or trunnions in stock. Currently Moss Head Office are attempting to source UNF nipples (I actually bought some on-line the same day) so that they can match them to what I assume, is a stock of wrongly machined trunnions. Still no sign of the replacement thrust washers, so I cancelled the order. Once properly cleaned the "old" ones are obviously still servicable

Charlie D.......I had a trunnion fail on a Morris 1000 back in the early 70s, ended up skidding to a halt with one front wheel tucked up under the front wing. Luckily this happened in the car park of the place I worked, so was at low speed. Still cost me £12 for a suspended tow 1 mile home. Doesn't sound much, but 1/3rd of a weeks wages back then! TTFN, Mike.

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Mike,

 

You said, “…one front wheel tucked up under the front wing. …”

Exactly how I remember it on my TR!, also in the early 1970’s.

I can still see the sparks flying as the chassis dug into the road.

 

Fortunately I had a friend with a Land Rover. We jacked up the front of the TR and bound the front bumper with rope and tied it to his tow hitch.

 

Imagine doing that today and getting away with it !!!.

 

Charlie D.

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I don't see any point in having them anything but flat. when I did mine it seemed as if the shaft of the trunnion was hardened steel but the supplied nut was not. The force needed to press the thrust washer on to the splines was more than the nut could take and it stripped its thread. I used a sacrificial grade 8 nut to wind the washer onto the splines.

 

Stan

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PS. Something tells me they were hardened too. I can look at NOS If we really need to know

 

 

Peter W

I think you will find they are (or should be ;) )

Stuart.

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More junk or incorrect items from a well known supplier & possibly safety important. Really not good enough. Can this Club not do something about poor quality parts?

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Hi Monty,

you report it through the PQI form and we will chase it up.

 

Roger

Hi Roger,

Well let's hope Mike does so! I thought there was some kind of system but do manufacturers/suppliers ever get to know about it & our concerns?

Cheers.

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Hi Monty,

we (myself and Ian Brown) spoke to the 12 big suppliers when we started the PQI scheme and they were quite enthusiastic for our aims.

Since the beginning we have had quite a few reports of duff items and a few not quite so duff.

 

These were put to the relevant supplier who behaved quite well. It is not in their interest to sell junk - but this does not stop them.

 

Not all complaints are successfully sorted out.

Most are but not always in a conventional way.

 

We are trying to get the PQI info more prominently placed on the website so members can see what is going on - but it is a very slow process.

 

Roger

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Hi Monthy,

I have submitted (only) one PQI and was happy with the effort Roger and Ian made.

It is a structured way of letting the vendors know something is wrong with a part, also because a first review/ judgement is done by experienced TR people.

 

Regards,

Waldi

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it will let the grease out and the thread fails to be lubricated.

 

Oil. You meant oil, of course. We know, when we think about it, it should be lubricated with oil. Not grease.

And the factory shop manual says not to use grease, iirc.

Yes, I know the oil tends to leak out so some people resort to grease, And grease can be OK if it is very frequently refreshed.. But trunnions are designed for oil, and with a new unit properly sealed it shouldn't leak..

 

My 63 Rambler has a trunnion setup. The top lube point even has a reservoir for oil. But this didn't stop some goon from lubing it with grease. Perhaps the same goon who, discovering that the steering box leaks, filled that with grease as well.

 

In a way, it's understandable, as few people bother to read the manual when lubricating. Shame that manufacturers didn't devise a different fitting for oil guns.

A grease nipple invites a grease gun as a nail invites a hammer.

 

Ivor

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Oil. You meant oil, of course. We know, when we think about it, it should be lubricated with oil. Not grease.

And the factory shop manual says not to use grease, iirc.

Yes, I know the oil tends to leak out so some people resort to grease, And grease can be OK if it is very frequently refreshed.. But trunnions are designed for oil, and with a new unit properly sealed it shouldn't leak..

 

My 63 Rambler has a trunnion setup. The top lube point even has a reservoir for oil. But this didn't stop some goon from lubing it with grease. Perhaps the same goon who, discovering that the steering box leaks, filled that with grease as well.

 

In a way, it's understandable, as few people bother to read the manual when lubricating. Shame that manufacturers didn't devise a different fitting for oil guns.

A grease nipple invites a grease gun as a nail invites a hammer.

 

Ivor

Ivor, Its debatable. I've used molygrease since 1978 and 250k miles. Molygrease was not common when TR suspension was designed. MS2 has the big advantage over oil that should the grease dry out the moly film provides dry-film lubrication. Peter

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That's a good variant.

Moly.

I could go with that, if the oil leaks out.

 

In my Rambler's box, parts unobtainum, I tried EP140 which leaked out more slowly, then went to ISO1000 Steam Cylinder oil, which leaks not at all. Or perhaps on a glacial timescale. No good for trunnions though.

 

Ivor

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That's a good variant.

Moly.

I could go with that, if the oil leaks out.

 

In my Rambler's box, parts unobtainum, I tried EP140 which leaked out more slowly, then went to ISO1000 Steam Cylinder oil, which leaks not at all. Or perhaps on a glacial timescale. No good for trunnions though.

 

Ivor

Ivor, I bought liquid moly to add to the EP140 on the blower phasing gears: belt and braces. The shaft seals leak so your steam oil sounds good, with maybe a touch of telfon gloop too !! Peter

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  • 3 years later...

Hi,

Q: Is there a right and wrong way around to fit the thrust washers or can they face either way (which may be the case unless they are bi-metallic)?

BTW ... should I grease the thrust washers or should they be dry and clean?

Thanks

Robert

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