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Urgent help needed - accidental damage to a concours car


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I need some advice urgently. I park in a garage next to a lovely concours Porsche 356 convertible. Ten years plus. Today there was a 356 hard top next to me (the owner's other car). I admired it greatly. On pulling out, I had neglected to remember that I had set my front wheels at an angle to move further away from the car at the right. I always pull straight out. Suddenly, I noticed I was moving way too close to the concrete pillar on my right rear. I stopped, and found the front - unfortunately - wedged against the 356. When I pulled forward I had scraped the car about a foot and a half, denting the door and creasing his Topaz £6,000 clear warap!! (so I am told!)

 

In his words: " the car is a multiple concourse winner in the States and was a 3 year restoration. I picked it up today. The car showed at The Quaiil Concour, Amelia Island Concours and Dana Point Concours. It was going to the Hedingham Porsche show tomorrow!!"

 

I am insured under the Footman James policy. I have no idea about his insurance. Yes, I did the damage, no way around that. Not intentional and of course there is not a scratch to my car!

 

He is off to his Porsche specialists to get full repair and respray estimates which could easily add up to over 10-15k!!

 

I didn't have my phone to take pics unfortunately but can go over tonight. Suggestions? Call insurers now? I thought we could handle it among ourselves but this has escalated!! Help!!

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Ron,

 

Lots and lots of pictures, perhaps with a ruler to show scale of damage incase it escalates to additional work perhaps with a good LED torch to improve picture quality.

But it's out of your hands, bang to rights. However it is only metal even if it is £12k that is nothing if there had been injuries so keep a sense of proportion.

 

Presumably you were friends with the other party, try and keep that going as after the repair it could be difficult for you.

The difference to your insurance premiums for a £5k claim or a £15k claim would not be much.

 

Even if you settle privately you are supposed / required to inform you insurers as it affects you risk profile, and you have already gone public on here.

 

Alan

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Hi Ron,

A shit happens this is pretty shitty. Just relax that is what insurance is all about. Footman James are not your insurers, they are just a broker. The underwriter will be Lloyds or AIG or another multi-billion dollar company. Your claim will be peanuts compared to Hurricane so and so or a 747 falling on Wembley stadium during an American lawyers conference. CALL FOOTMAN ASAP that is what they are there for. The worst that can happen to you is you loose a NCB.

Get the others guy's insurance details and let the insurance industry do what we pay them for.

 

Cheers

 

Simon

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Do not settle privately, If he thinks you have means he will clean you, Pass it all over to FJ. If he asks or hassles you just tell him it is in the hands of the insurer. You MUST get his insurance details

You might find he was uninsured

 

Simon

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If that was my Porker with a genuine concours acceptance record like that then I wouldn't be considering a minor repair and blow over, given the requirement to match shade precisely to top concours standard . . . . I'd be looking for a complete bare metal respray, and nothing less.

 

Cost irrelevant, someone else is paying, I'd simply want the car returning to its original condition - whatever it cost, not my problem.

 

As for the insurance, that might not be so straightforward - I had a TR damaged in a commercial garage storage some years ago, similar circumstance where someone had turned a little too much and clipped a wing. Unfortunately we didn't know who had done the dirty deed.

 

The insurers weren't interested, cover does not apply in that situation, see the small print, etc etc. I did, they were bang on, no contest.

 

I'd be very surprised if, in an off road shared garage storage facility, that the insurers would regard this occurrence as a covered risk.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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Oh, it gets worse ...much much worse. Just went over to take some photos. He was there with the other 356. Apparently, the one I damaged is insured at an agreed value of ..... (swallow)

£ 700,000! Why? it's a 1964 356 with 7k original, three time Concours winner and one of 26 built with the Spyder racing cam engine.

 

Had I damaged his £250k convertible 356 it would have been easier for him to handle....he had the one I damaged flown in from it's LA restoration yesterday.

 

Ok, tricky bits. He does not want to involve the insurers as - because of the value (and according to him) they would not want him to park in in a communal underground garage.

 

He is also happy as it's "just the door skin" and he "has the paint". Still, I am thinking he wants 3-5k cash from me.

 

is this extortion? I haven't phoned footman James yet as I just got photos a few minutes ago. What to do?

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This is pretty simple, you are at fault as you say, just pass everything over to the insurance company, don't get personally involved..... the extent of the repair will be dependant on the insurance assessment etc. The standard of the repair to his vehicle is an irrelevant to you (but is important to the third party)

It will simply be treated as a transaction by the insurance people, you should endeavour to do the same.

 

...... Andy

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Other than notification what does his insurance company have to do with it ? Why would it be any skin off his nose ?

 

As Andy says It needs to be kept that way with your involvement kept to a minimum, whatever the cost of the repair or the value of the car is irrelevant, you've damaged it, an accident like others that happens thousands of times a day, not the end of the world. Let it go through the insurance.

 

Mick Richards

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Apparently, the one I damaged is insured at an agreed value of ..... (swallow)

£ 700,000! Why? it's a 1964 356 with 7k original, three time Concours winner and one of 26 built with the Spyder racing cam engine.

 

Ok, tricky bits. He does not want to involve the insurers as - because of the value (and according to him) they would not want him to park in in a communal underground garage.

 

He is also happy as it's "just the door skin" and he "has the paint". Still, I am thinking he wants 3-5k cash from me.

 

is this extortion? I haven't phoned footman James yet as I just got photos a few minutes ago. What to do?

This is why you have insurance, so you don't get lumbered with the variable costs dependant upon what car you are unfortunate enough to damage!

 

You've paid you premium, let the policy work for you, yes you may have to swallow a future increase in premium as a result, but it will be A hell of a lot less the £3-5k.

 

.... Andy

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It has happened, you cannot turn back the clock, Contact your insurers. In the mean time chill out, open a good bottle of wine and ask the porky owner over to have a glass.

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I think you're beating yourself up Ron, other than the fact you accidentally damaged it there's nothing to say, and posting whatever pictures won't help us or you. Chill out and let it take it's course through the insurers, you'll get it in perspective tomorrow.

 

Mick Richards

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Sorry guys - a bit wound up and frustrated by today's events and the inability to speak to anyone regarding the claim. Also it's a bit of a less than direct way of posting pics and I had forgotten. And I don't have any wine in the house.]

 

I tried to call the claim in.

 

I did speak to the owner, who is reluctant to provide insurance details

 

I ran out of wine.

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Hi Ron,

 

I've just spoken to a pal who deals in this bracket of investment car, and also owns a sort of armoured storage facility in which megabuck motoring icons are stored. Once he'd stopped hooting . . . .

 

His suggestion is that insurers of such exotica are inordinately particular about every last detail of storage and transport, and that the likelihood of them entertaining any sort of claim from the Porsche owner is rather less than that of hell freezing over . . . . . and if such a claim is reported, they'd probably withdraw his insurance cover anyway, on the grounds that he is clearly unable to confirm with their precisely stipulated terms and conditions.

 

No wonder he doesn't wish to involve them . . . . .

 

This might well leave you with rather more negotiating room ?

 

A discussion with your own insurers might prove fruitful, although whether they might be any more sympathetic to your case is another matter.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

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Quote, " I had scraped the car about a foot and a half, denting the door and creasing his Topaz £6,000 clear warap!!"

 

And, "He is off to his Porsche specialists to get full repair and respray estimates which could easily add up to over 10-15k!!"

 

Ridiculous! Even if you are the best of friends, this is where you lose him, for being a complete banker. Get your insurance Company to dispute that estimate, ASAP.

A door dent and half a meter of scrape? £1500, max. in any ordinary repair shop.

 

And that £6K wrap? See: http://topaz.dev.signature.eu.com/choosing-paint-protection Quote, "It should cost at least £2000; be suspsicious if the garage is offeerd under £1000"

 

JOhn

 

PS, just seen the pics you postsd o the door scrape - that's the sort of ding that ChipsAway fix for a hundred.

Edited by john.r.davies
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I met a guy a year ago at the Starbucks a winding wooded drive in the TR from my house who was driving a just-purchased and concours-restored Speedster. The shipping company who brought it from California to Missouri scraped a wing. He was frustrated as hell and was expecting, as Alec noted earlier, a full bare metal respray .

 

That's the world those cars are in these days.

 

This is what insurance is for. Let them handle it.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if the guy would like to handle it privately so "accident damage" doesn't show on the vehicle's official record.

Edited by Don H.
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Thanks Alec - I thought of that too. I have in mind a figure I'd offer on a take it or leave it basis. To me it would be fair for damage I did to a car - just not a mega-car. I'm not equipped to pay for that out of pocket. I agree the cost of reinsuring - or of losing insurance for him - has to be astronomical. Hence the decision to decline my request for details.

 

He is getting it priced up. Apparently, he can get a new full door skin from Denmark, and he has the paint. He just can't attend the concours today in the car. Instead, he'll take his 250k 356 Cabriolet, which I always thought was the better car.

 

I will print his repair estimate to me on this site. I'm sure we will all whistle, and possibly...hoot

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Hmmm, with a car like that I would only ever park it in my own garage, anywhere else I would bring cones and "stay away" tape, suddenly I feel much better looking at my TR6 with all those imperfections in the paint, anyway it's good we have different standards. Amazing to see those concours cars and think about the extreme measures that is behind not only creating them but to keep them like that!

 

Magnus

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Quote, " I had scraped the car about a foot and a half, denting the door and creasing his Topaz £6,000 clear warap!!"

 

And, "He is off to his Porsche specialists to get full repair and respray estimates which could easily add up to over 10-15k!!"

 

Ridiculous! Even if you are the best of friends, this is where you lose him, for being a complete banker. Get your insurance Company to dispute that estimate, ASAP.

A door dent and half a meter of scrape? £1500, max. in any ordinary repair shop.

 

And that £6K wrap? See: http://topaz.dev.signature.eu.com/choosing-paint-protection Quote, "It should cost at least £2000; be suspsicious if the garage is offeerd under £1000"

 

JOhn

 

PS, just seen the pics you postsd o the door scrape - that's the sort of ding that ChipsAway fix for a hundred.

 

Quote, " I had scraped the car about a foot and a half, denting the door and creasing his Topaz £6,000 clear warap!!"

 

And, "He is off to his Porsche specialists to get full repair and respray estimates which could easily add up to over 10-15k!!"

 

Ridiculous! Even if you are the best of friends, this is where you lose him, for being a complete banker. Get your insurance Company to dispute that estimate, ASAP.

A door dent and half a meter of scrape? £1500, max. in any ordinary repair shop.

 

And that £6K wrap? See: http://topaz.dev.signature.eu.com/choosing-paint-protection Quote, "It should cost at least £2000; be suspsicious if the garage is offeerd under £1000"

 

JOhn

 

PS, just seen the pics you postsd o the door scrape - that's the sort of ding that ChipsAway fix for a hundred.

 

 

Agreed John. Methinks he does not want his insurance people knowing about this or perhaps where the car is kept. My paint man would do a lovely & fair priced job on that 356 in between the 'concours' cars he paints of people such as Nick Mason!

Cheers.

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