Loctite

[Dave Larnder]

Hi All

 

I have used in the past the Pattex equivalent of Loctite called NURAL 50 to lock bolts etc. in place.

Now I need to remove the striker plate in the B post on the passenger side, so I need to know if there is any solvent or the likes that I can apply, that will let me get the bolts undone to relocate the striker plate so as to get the door to close properly ,and not just onto the first latched position which leaves it unsecured, without damage to the paintwork preferably.

Thanks

 

Dave

[RogerH]

Hi Dave,

basically - no.

 

How will the solvent get down the thread to release the bond.

 

You coud use a well fitting tool on the fastener and give it a heave.

 

There are different grades of studlock - some release easier than others.

 

Roger

[AlanT]

The usual method to get thread-locking compounds to let go is HEAT.

 

Ordinary nut-locking grades don't need a lot of heat. Stud-locker, bearing-retainer grades will want quite a lot of heat.

 

Heat will break the adhesive bond but the parts may still be pretty tight to separate because the product remnants will still tend to seize them up.

[snowric]

I use a heat gun or for more sensitive bits (on my pushbikes) I use an electric soldering iron to heat the screw, soften the loctite and keep testing until it budges. Not sure latter would work on striker pates given the huge 'heat sink".

 

Snowy

[Don H.]

What does the Pattex site say about removal of that particular grade, Dave?

 

Henkel/Loctite are quite proud of the durability of red Loctite (although I don't know if that's the same as your Pattex product). Loctite note temperatures of 288 °C (550 °F) are needed to remove a hot bolt, and that the fastener is likely to break before the Loctite lets go otherwise.

http://henkeladhesivesna.com/blog/how-to-remove-red-threadlocker/

[Dave Larnder]

Hi Don and All

Well I guess heat is out on the B post! I see that Pattex is also a product of Henkel, but when I took their address and phone number, which is in Barcelona, off the tube, they didn´t even speak English let alone have a technical dept.

I did notice when sitting on the floor, that the door had dropped ever so slightly and was touching the B post at the top, So I slacked off the top hinge only on the door, lifted it up a little, and retightened it up. That helped quite a bit in closing the door from outside with nobody in the passenger seat. Before the hinge job, I had released only half of the screws holding the door panel in, which included the removal of the rear dzus bracket and sat in the seat. That allowed me to close the door properly, so there must be a bit of flexing somewhere with somebody in the seat.

I´m afraid that my wife has never been able to shut a door, any car door, without banging it, only when we had the MKII Jag did she get it right due to the weight of the door which shuts under it´s own weight with a gentle click even with all windows closed.

If it still gives problems, it will mean that I must put a 1mm piece of Plasticard between the lock and the door frame and elongate the bolt holes by that amount. If that doesn´t do it, then try first 1.5mm then 2mm, but that would be about the max. you can elongate those holes by.

Lesson learned. Don't use thread lock on body bolts.

 

Dave

[Geko]

 

Don't use thread lock on body bolts.

 

Dave

You beat me to it. Use starred lock washer for body parts whenever possible. As far as i'm concerned I use Loctite for the flywheel only

Edited August 22, 2017 by Geko

[barkerwilliams]

Dave,

 

If you really can't shift it why not try freezing the bolt with a plumbing freezer spray then shielding the bolt with a socket and applying heat from a heat gun. Not enough heat to cause damage just to get a difference between the components.

 

Alan

[AlanT]

If you used the "wrong" grade of Loctite you will want 300 degC!

 

The "right" grade of Loctite would undo with a "normal" hand-tool, according to the data.

 

I fear you will be drilling these out and this will be AWFUL.

[barkerwilliams]

Dave,

 

Before it gets too drastic have you tried using an impact screwdriver? I use Vessel Impacta Screwdrivers which I think are wonderful. at loosening very tight screws.

 

no connection.

 

 

Alan

[Fireman049]

+1 Alan.

 

Tom.

[Dave Larnder]

Alan and Tom

 

I have a De Walt 1/4" impact driver, but the screws in the anchor are screwdriver slots not star or the better grip type tools and I am afraid of the possibility of driver slip and scoring the B post, as it was, the driver half ruined the star bolts in the door top hinge on reinstallation so the csk. bolts were very soft, so next job will be to get better quality bolts to replace those in the hinge.

Anybody familiar with those Canadian bolts that have a square in the head (not a hex.) as I have the tool for those that I got when I bought the De Walt battery drill and matching 1/4" impact driver. I can get those type of UNF bolts via my son in B.C. Canada.

 

Dave

[MikeF]

Dave,

 

If you really can't shift it why not try freezing the bolt with a plumbing freezer spray then shielding the bolt with a socket and applying heat from a heat gun. Not enough heat to cause damage just to get a difference between the components.

 

Alan

Beat me to it, Alternately heating the part and then immediately freeze spraying it could give enough thermal shock to break the bond. Afterwards you would have an interference fit so might be a tough unscrew. If you can keep the area warm as possible that might help by softening the adhesive.

So far as solvents are concerned, as Roger said the only access to the thread is down the end, so penetration would take a long time, but could eventually work. We are talking days here. As long as you are not concerned for paintwork of course, Any solvent strong enough to be effective will do for your paint.

 

Mike

[graeme]

Anybody familiar with those Canadian bolts that have a square in the head (not a hex.) as I have the tool for those that I got when I bought the De Walt battery drill and matching 1/4" impact driver. I can get those type of UNF bolts via my son in B.C. Canada.

 

Dave

 

 

Dave,

 

What you are referring to, the Robertson square drive, is useful, but be aware that there are 6 different sizes.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Robertson_.28square.29

 

Cheers

 

Graeme

[Dave Larnder]

Graeme

 

Hi Graeme I am aware of that, my one is a number 2 with a yellow band, and a 2 stamped on it. Do you know if all the others up to the Brown fit into a 1/4" machine?

Did not know the name of them, so thanks for that.

 

Dave

[john.r.davies]

Best way of heating this would be an induction coil heater.

They are available as workshop tools and very effctive:

 

 

BUT, although they have come down in price, they still cost in excess of £400.

You might be able to hire one, or else find a gareg that will use theirs on your bolt, while you wait.

 

John

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

A touch of 'Screw Grab' on the screw driver tip before attempting to undo will improve the friction between the screw slot and driver tip, that may solve the screw driver slipping out of the slot, but not the ultimate screw head slot strength.

 

http://www.screwgrab.com/screw-grab.html

 

It is a product I have used successfully for many years.

 

Peter W

[Dave Larnder]

A touch of 'Screw Grab' on the screw driver tip before attempting to undo will improve the friction between the screw slot and driver tip, that may solve the screw driver slipping out of the slot, but not the ultimate screw head slot strength.

 

http://www.screwgrab.com/screw-grab.html

 

It is a product I have used successfully for many years.

 

Peter W

Hi Peter

 

Sounds what I need. Where do you buy it in U.K. and how much does it cost?

 

Dave

[RogerH]

Hi Dave,

put a drop of 'Studlock' on the end of the screwdriver and leave for apprx 4 month - it shouldn't slip off then

 

Roger

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Simple ebay search finds it

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCREW-GRAB-HELPS-TO-REMOVE-OR-TIGHTEN-SCREWS-BRAND-NEW-FREE-P-P-/262422007713?hash=item3d19920fa1:g:qFwAAOSwKfVXK1wI

 

Peter W

[Don H.]

Simple ebay search finds it

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCREW-GRAB-HELPS-TO-REMOVE-OR-TIGHTEN-SCREWS-BRAND-NEW-FREE-P-P-/262422007713?hash=item3d19920fa1:g:qFwAAOSwKfVXK1wI

 

Peter W

 

That compound is more for crosshead fasteners, isn't it, Peter? Does a slotted head really benefit from it? I guess it could, but the best thing is a very well-fitting driver in the slot, IMO.

 

And a bit off-topic, I use JIS screwdrivers on Phillips crosshead screws. The different profile of the JIS pattern doesn't cam out like Phillips and gives a noticeably more confident fit. (Note: JIS is a Japanese industrial standard, Phillips is described in American Society of Mechanical Engineers standards). I've never studied which pattern is used for crosshead fasteners in Europe (ones that aren't Posidriv, of course), but it could be a variation on JIS, which is good in my mind.

 

Many times (but not always) one can tell a JIS fastener by a little dot or dimple in the head of the fastener.

 

Note that JIS goes into Phillips, but don't do it the other way.

[Nick Jones]

I'd suggest heating the screw head with a small gas torch or hot air gun. Some subtlety / shielding may be needed to avoid collateral damage but heat is definitely the key. It even shifts the "permanent" stuff.

 

For the future, there are low strength threadlock compounds specially for screws. I now use countersunk allen head bolts instead of screws mainly so I can get them tight enough not to need threadlock.

 

Nick

[Waldi]

Can you use a sharp center punch, drill out and tap a new thread?

[Don H.]

I'd suggest heating the screw head with a small gas torch or hot air gun. Some subtlety / shielding may be needed to avoid collateral damage but heat is definitely the key. It even shifts the "permanent" stuff.

 

For the future, there are low strength threadlock compounds specially for screws. I now use countersunk allen head bolts instead of screws mainly so I can get them tight enough not to need threadlock.

 

Nick

 

A soldering pencil applied directly to the fastener head can also be used to give more "focused" heating.

[Dave Larnder]

Don

 

The video for Screw Grab shows a simple spade type screwdriver on his bench but he doesn´t use it, so maybe it isn´t all that effective.

Using an electric soldering pencil will not give enough heat in my opinion because there is too much material in the anchor and the heat will dissipate throughout and not be concentrated enough., so as I said earlier, heat is out for fear of damaging the paintwork.

The screw grab seems a possibility so I will try to buy some albeit not too good for the spade type bolts in the anchor. Don´t know about JIS tools and absolutely no chance of getting them in Spain.

 

Waldi

I think after the screw grab way, drilling them out will be my next and last approach, and then I will use those Robertson screws from Canada in both the anchor and the main screws in the door hinges.

 

Dave