Rem18 Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 So after years and years of the unleaded situation I was wondering if there are definitive articles on all the unleaded saga? Both my CP Tr6 and Tr5 have been running on unleaded with a dash of castrol valvemaster without any conversions for about 20 years now right? Recently I swapped out a metering unit for a torn diaphragm which has more to do I suspect has more to do with me leaving the system dry for 6 months, I also just replaced a broken rocker on N°2 valve which is an inlet valve not exhaust anyway. So where is all the worry? 20 years hard driving expecting to face the unleaded devil.. Have I missed something or was the unleaded story just a saga after all? What did people generally find after all the worry 20 years ago? Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Tony, Recent thread here: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/62841-lead-replacement-fuel-additive/?hl=additive Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Thanks Peter. So seems my findings on near 50k are in line with others. Looks like I should drop the valve master too. On the thread you indicated there isn't anything about metering units? Here too I have had 20 years on a leaded kit. T Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Tony, Lots of PI info from Vitesse Steve here: http://vitessesteve.co.uk/ This diaphragm can split horizontally in unused engines: http://prntscr.com/g7x8tv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) thanks Peter. I'm pretty good with PI since our Tr6 is a bought from new 1970 and I learnt to handle it myself from a young age. My Tr5 diaphragm was so perfectly torn at 360* that at first what was still on the housing made me think it was an o'ring. But it lasted 20 years on unleaded and that mostly without Vpower, so I'm inclined to think that unleaded PR is a bit of hype on metering units too. Edited August 13, 2017 by Rem18 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) thanks Peter. I'm pretty good with PI since our Tr6 is a bought from new 1970 and I learnt to handle it myself from a young age. My Tr5 diaphragm was so perfectly torn at 360* that at first what was still on the housing made me think it was an o'ring. But it lasted 20 years on unleaded and that mostly without Vpower, so I'm inclined to think that unleaded PR is a bit of hype on metering units too. It wasnt hype. The MBTE added to fuel after lead was removed and before ethanol was added attacked seals, and they needed to change. Nowadays its air oxidising ethanol to aldehydes that might be a problem. MBTE is toxic, now banned. Edited August 13, 2017 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 It wasnt hype. The MBTE added to fuel after lead was removed and before ethanol was added attacked seals, and they needed to change. Nowadays its air oxidising ethanol to aldehydes that might be a problem. MBTE is toxic, now banned. But it remains that like with valves, I just had 20 years out of a leaded MU. Any posts regards MU life about? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saffrontr Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 I have to say that I think there is a lot of hype about the effect of unleaded, MBTE and ethanol on our engines and the injection system. In my case I did have my head unleaded when the engine was rebuilt a few years back and have also fitted an unleaded metering unit however my injectors have not been touched having been replaced some 35 years ago with some new old stock ones that I got for £4 each off exchange and mart and they are still going strong, ditto my Bosch pump fitted at the same time in 1982 and which resides in the same place as the Lucas pump and uses the original CAV filter. I guess you pays your money and you take your chance and in my case the head was only done at the time because of all of the hype being published and because I was having the engine rebuilt, was the extra for the unleaded head a waste of money, probably however it gave me peace of mind at the time. cheers Derek Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Quite right Derek. I too have a Bosch on the 5 and still the Cav, original prv, injectors and all the rest. I am sure unleaded seals etc in the metering unit bring peace of mind. But the purpose of my post is that after 20 years I haven't seen any effects and with hindsight I would suspect that an awful Lot of unleaded gear has been sold without reason. That said my choice was to wait and see and change as needed. I have just put a MU prepared 20 years ago as a spare on and I might not get another 20 years from this one, but I am certainly not rushing out to spend my pennies. Still would like to hear from people who have seen failures in MU's due to unleaded? I can tell you my father with his new 6 got through more MU's and stuff when it was new and newish than we all appear to do now... T Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Quote Much has been written about the benefits and failings of the petrol injection system made by Lucas that was fitted to Triumph TR6 models. Few spares to assist the home repairer are available. The only major option is an exchange rebuilt unit, in the event of your own going wrong through normal wear and tear or internal failure. Units returned for exchange must be complete and serviceable or a surcharge will be levied until an acceptable item is received.A standard metering unit is not suitable for unleaded fuel. All metering units supplied by Rimmer Bros are suitable for use with unleaded or leaded fuel.The changing of engine components such as the camshaft or exhaust system may alter the fuelling requirements of an engine. The metering units listed above are for use on standard specification engines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Yeah That's point. Twenty years ago there was a load of push regards unleaded, redone heads and stuff and to be honest not much on MU's at the time, yet it seems others like me decided to wait and to be honest it seems it wasn't such a bad idea. I wonder if others like me waited on MU's as well. But Neil if your going to go that way the shuttle should be changed too. You will note that many refurbished units from reputable suppliers are offered with unleaded seals but not with unleaded shuttles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Modern fuel will eat your pipework let alone the Mu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Seems it forgot to notice last 20 years. ???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Seems it forgot to notice last 20 years. Your the expert change one and find out Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Not expert. Just never change valve guides or MU and lasted the whole. Figure within next few years will probably do some rebuilding and so we will see. But still think a lot of this was hype and seems some others have had similar experiences. But that's why I asked if anyone has any stories regards problems due to not converting. Certainly from what Peter Cobbold linked, valves don't seem that much of a problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cew Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Modern fuel will eat your pipework let alone the Mu But over what time period?. I have always used a fuel additive of some kind ,most commonly Redex,(anyone remember asking a pump attendant for "shots" of the stuff?) in all my petrol engined cars and I use a lead substitute in the 6 which still has its Lucas pump and ,as far as I know after 10 years ,all other original parts of the fuel system with no noticeable issues so far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 If as I said change them you will find modern pipes that can use it,if you wish to keep your 40+ year old rubber on your head be it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Exactly Cew. My 5 has done 50k of very hard driving in 20 years. My dads 1970 6 bought new, still has the lot original and has many more replacements when new. It was always in the shop even in warranty. I spent many a time stuck behind the front seats as a kid with the petrol smell. I don't want to sound dismissive, but if Peter linked a thread that basically says valves haven't been a problem and if so far no-one has posted regards MU's I do wonder if a lot of it is just business? Of course piping might need changing once in a while but I see that as maintenance. High pressure piping should always be looked after. My MU has just been changed out after 20 years due to a brocken diaphragm, but as I said I think it has more to do with me leaving the system dry for months. Also it's such a big deal you would expect shuttles to be vital as they are the most delicate item in the MU and yet most replacements don't have new lead free shuttles and others ask a lot of extra to supply new. I really would like to hear from people who can actually say unleaded blew my MU! If it took 20 years for my MU to just give up a diaphragm, if the valves are ok, well doesn't it make sense to wait? T Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 I have changed rubber piping over the years as standard maintenance. But I still have original neoprene to CAV and on injectors. Might be it's gotten harder not sure. But think that when piping is affected if anything it goes soft. Again if someone has some actual stories? T Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Modern unleaded fuel destroyed my rubber hoses and fuel diaphragm a few months ago- http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/61934-fuel-stabilizer/. Since then I've installed a new diaphragm from Rimmers and Gates Barricade hoses and I've also started adding fuel stabilizer over winter. In Australia high octane unleaded seems to be getting more chemically aggressive each year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 The conclusion I'm drawing from this thread is that if you want to leave it all as standard, go ahead. If you want to convert to a system that's ethanol and unleaded resistant, go ahead. I know that it doesn't take the thread any further but it seems stalled to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Mike after how long? Maybe you have a point maybe it's getting more agressive, be good to know how long you had the hoses and MU though? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 The conclusion I'm drawing from this thread is that if you want to leave it all as standard, go ahead. If you want to convert to a system that's ethanol and unleaded resistant, go ahead. I know that it doesn't take the thread any further but it seems stalled to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rem18 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Sure Peejay. Just interested to hear some stories. Mike for instance mebtioned diaphragm and piping, but not shuttle? I will play it by ear still but good to hear the stories. As I think is clear the valves may not if been necessary, but MU? Also to what extent if? T Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) I'm not home at the moment so I can't check my records. From memory the rebuilt changeover MU was fitted 9 years ago. It was supplied by a reputable Australian Pi specialist and was supposed to be suitable for unleaded fuel . The high pressure fuel hoses were replaced 3 years ago and the low pressure about 20 years ago. The high pressure hoses had some evidence of deterioration and the low pressure lines had a lot. All hoses were replaced last winter with Gates Barricade as it's supposedly resistant to modern fuels and its pressure rating is pretty good. The downside I found with GB hoses was that their bend radius is a lot bigger that older spec. hoses. To me the changing composition of modern unleaded fuels affecting rubber components is a lot more of a threat to keeping PI Triumphs on the road than valve seat recession. Edited August 14, 2017 by Mike C Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.