Frographer Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 Hello all, Have been using the Halfords own brand Lead replacement fuel additive but running low on my last bottle - and it seems to now be discontinued. Any recommendations for alternatives? A quick Google seems to say Castrol Valvemaster Plus (for non-TRs) but would value the Registers' members' advice. Cheers, Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3739 Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 Never used any additive may I ask why you feel the need to use it in nearly 50,000 miles of ownership? Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frographer Posted July 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 Hello Mike, After the car was restored it was recommended by the person who completed it (I am a total novice). I've never had any problems, so figured why change? To be fair the car only gets light use.. do you think Super-Unleaded petrol is enough? Cheers, Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 I've been using Valvemaster since leaded fuel became difficult to find. No problems so far. Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) I use Millers VSPe http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluids/fuel-oil-additives/millers-vspe-powerplus-multishot-500ml Shop around for the best price. My car hasn't been converted to unleaded valve seats. It cures my overrunning I use shell v power petrol as well. I'd Rather use it, rather than find out later I "SHOULD" have used it. !! Think the PO also used it. I'm sure it helps my car and the way I use it. Edited July 16, 2017 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 I use the higher octane fuel, but no additives. No sign of any valve seat recession yet (in around 8000 miles) when (& if) it happens I will modify the head. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 I have yet to hear of one case of valve seat recession in TR6 despite asking on here several times. The FBHVC VSR tests used IIRC a 1000cc engine run at 4000rpm full throttle for many hours. Anyone who drives a 6 on the road like that will have more to worry about than VSR ! Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 I use Millers VSPehttp://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluids/fuel-oil-additives/millers-vspe-powerplus-multishot-500ml Shop around for the best price. My car hasn't been converted to unleaded valve seats. It cures my overrunning I use shell v power petrol as well. I'd Rather use it, rather than find out later I "SHOULD" have used it. !! Think the PO also used it. I'm sure it helps my car and the way I use it. My overrunning was cured by using Shell V power only! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) My overrunning was cured by using Shell V power only! That indicates the running on is an autoignition process.Autoigntion is triggered by a hotter region in the combustion chamber so try a couple of grades colder plugs. The hot spot will only need to be 50C cooler to allow normal shut down on 97RON, Also check the vac adv capsule is working as retarded sparks at cruise wil make for hotter running. We've been here before: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/59509-running-on/ Peter Edited July 16, 2017 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) As Peter says, valve recession since lead disappeared from petrol is a vastly magnified problem, probably due to "lead memory", the lead pounded into valve seats over many years of use. That continues to do the job of preventing valve seat erosion, unless: - exposed to high stress, as in the FBHVC test or prolonged motorway running. - if the seats are ever reground or lapped, so that the surface layer is removed. Having the seats replaced by steel inserts put in (exhausts only) should always be considered if the head is removed for any reason, as this gives complete confidence for the future. John PS you might like to read the story of Thomas Midgley Jr., who was a remarkable scientist in that he was responsible for not one, but two global disasters that we are only now recovering from. About 1920, he persuaded General Motors to use Tetra ethyl lead in petrol, even though he knew it was toxic, and that there were effective alternatives - alcohol! Then in the 1930s, Frigidaire, owned by GM wanted a less toxic or inflammable refrigeration gas, and he came up with the first CFC. He may forgiven for not knowing the effect of these on the Ozone layer, but not for lead in petrol. See: "Inventor hero was a one-man environmental disaster" https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23431290-800-inventor-hero-was-a-oneman-environmental-disaster/ Edited July 17, 2017 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 That indicates the running on is an autoignition process.Autoigntion is triggered by a hotter region in the combustion chamber so try a couple of grades colder plugs. The hot spot will only need to be 50C cooler to allow normal shut down on 97RON, Also check the vac adv capsule is working as retarded sparks at cruise wil make for hotter running. We've been here before: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/59509-running-on/ Peter Thanks Peter. It is not really a problem for me. The car runs (& has for several years) beautifully on the Shell & NGK BP6HS plugs & I am loathe to spoil the formula! I did try a colder plug a few years ago but it did not run as well so reverted back to the standard plug. Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HSM Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Just as a point of interest regarding valve seat recession. one of my customers managed 40,000mls in a Ford Cortina ( cast iron head ) before experiencing valve seat recession on no 4 cyl. exhaust valve. Harvey S.Maitland Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 As Peter says, valve recession since lead disappeared from petrol is a vastly magnified problem, probably due to "lead memory", the lead pounded into valve seats over many years of use. That continues to do the job of preventing valve seat erosion, unless: - exposed to high stress, as in the FBHVC test or prolonged motorway running. - if the seats are ever reground or lapped, so that the surface layer is removed. Having the seats replaced by steel inserts put in (exhausts only) should always be considered if the head is removed for any reason, as this gives complete confidence for the future. John PS you might like to read the story of Thomas Midgley Jr., who was a remarkable scientist in that he was responsible for not one, but two global disasters that we are only now recovering from. About 1920, he persuaded General Motors to use Tetra ethyl lead in petrol, even though he knew it was toxic, and that there were effective alternatives - alcohol! Then in the 1930s, Frigidaire, owned by GM wanted a less toxic or inflammable refrigeration gas, and he came up with the first CFC. He may forgiven for not knowing the effect of these on the Ozone layer, but not for lead in petrol. See: "Inventor hero was a one-man environmental disaster" https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23431290-800-inventor-hero-was-a-oneman-environmental-disaster Water injection anyone? The cheap 12 RON additive with no toxicity unlike lead,manganese, benzene, aniline etc, and it doesn't catch fire easily unlike alcohols..... Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 I use Millers VSPe http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluids/fuel-oil-additives/millers-vspe-powerplus-multishot-500ml Shop around for the best price. My car hasn't been converted to unleaded valve seats. It cures my overrunning I use shell v power petrol as well. I'd Rather use it, rather than find out later I "SHOULD" have used it. !! Think the PO also used it. I'm sure it helps my car and the way I use it. Don't all these additives contain Ferrocene which forms deposits on the plug and elsewhere in the engine? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Don't all these additives contain Ferrocene which forms deposits on the plug and elsewhere in the engine? Yep which is why we dont recommend them. Lets face it not many of you drive our cars hard enough to really experience much in the way of valve seat recession, those that do have normally had the heads done. The Guy who does head work for me says the material Triumph heads are made from is far superior to likes of Fords from that era that do suffer terribly (He once showed me a MK3 Zodiac head that the valves had nearly sunk out of sight!) Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Yep which is why we dont recommend them. Lets face it not many of you drive our cars hard enough to really experience much in the way of valve seat recession, those that do have normally had the heads done. The Guy who does head work for me says the material Triumph heads are made from is far superior to likes of Fords from that era that do suffer terribly (He once showed me a MK3 Zodiac head that the valves had nearly sunk out of sight!) Stuart. Ferrocene. Never heard of it. What does it do?You got me worried now !! Is this driven hard enough not to worry about that ? This years Aintree sprint only managed 93mph over the line. And pictures at curborough and shelsley walsh Edited July 19, 2017 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frographer Posted July 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 So, I am thinking it is best to start not to worry about the additive and stick to Shell V-Power? Many thanks for all your thoughts - apologies for the tardy reply, I have been abroad with work and didn't get a chance to check up on the thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 So, I am thinking it is best to start not to worry about the additive and stick to Shell V-Power? Many thanks for all your thoughts - apologies for the tardy reply, I have been abroad with work and didn't get a chance to check up on the thread. I have done exactly the same. Shell V, no more additive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MostEasterlySteve Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 I use this: http://www.tetraboost.com Real lead. Quite legal. Engine runs beautifully. Unleaded petrol contains several known carcinogens. Leaded petrol did not. Machines always ran better on leaded petrol. Cooler, more power, smoother, quieter. Leaded petrol was stable for many months, sometimes years. Modern unleaded is stale and 'off' within weeks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Ferrocene is a cheap thirld world octane enhancer, forms iron oxide particles during combustion. Very bad for bore wear etc. Avoid ! Last time I looked VSP contains a manganese-based dope.... fat soluble so avoid hand contact with the liquid. Not sure how toxic the exhaust is. Mn was once used in Canada pump fuels, long since banned. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 I use this: http://www.tetraboost.com Real lead. Quite legal. Engine runs beautifully. Unleaded petrol contains several known carcinogens. Leaded petrol did not. Machines always ran better on leaded petrol. Cooler, more power, smoother, quieter. Leaded petrol was stable for many months, sometimes years. Modern unleaded is stale and 'off' within weeks. High octane modern fuels are likely to contain significant amounts of benzene, toluene etc , all know carcinogens. While lead is not carcinogenic is is highly neurotoxic. Getting the tetraboost stuff on the skin is a bad idea, even doped petrol, easy to forget when working on the feul system. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MostEasterlySteve Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 ...Getting the tetraboost stuff on the skin is a bad idea, even doped petrol, easy to forget when working on the feul system. Peter Yes, very good point. I'm very careful with it 'neat' but it is easy to relax a bit too much when it comes to the treated fuel. I do however think that it is far and away the best additive, if one wishes, or needs, to use such a thing. Tetraboost gives the car back that 'creamy' feeling they used to have (all subjective I know!), whereas my previous experience of using Valvemaster and Millers was far less satisfactory. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 Ferrocene is a cheap thirld world octane enhancer, forms iron oxide particles during combustion. Very bad for bore wear etc. Avoid ! Last time I looked VSP contains a manganese-based dope.... fat soluble so avoid hand contact with the liquid. Not sure how toxic the exhaust is. Mn was once used in Canada pump fuels, long since banned. Peter Peter, Unfortunately no. I bought Millers VSP thinking that, then spotted deposits on my plugs and saw that Ferrocene was listed on the label! Darren Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 Peter, Unfortunately no. I bought Millers VSP thinking that, then spotted deposits on my plugs and saw that Ferrocene was listed on the label! Darren Darren, Interesting. When I used VSP octane booster the deposits were pinkish from manganese. Maybe they switched to ferrocene in the last few years. Definitely not a good idea to use ferrocene. Harvey ( HSM ) has a spark retiming adjustment that can eliminate low speed pinking when suddenly opening the throttle. That should eliminate the need for higher octane than 97RON. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 Nick, I see you have a TR6, as the TR6 suffers from a Kamm tail and draws exhaust fumes into the cockpit please choose an additive with care as you will be breathing in exhaust fumes, even more fumes if you have the twin (wheelbarrow) exhaust. Some of the additives are particularly nasty. Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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