stillp Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 a "quivering" owner who's spent 1/4 of his annual pension on it's rebuild Mick, that's either a very good pension, or a very cheap rebuild! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) On 7/18/2017 at 8:51 AM, littlejim said: At risk of sending the thread off at a tangent, one of the 'running in' items I had a problem with was when to retighten the head bolts. From memory, some reference I found said wait for about 1000 miles to retighten. My head gasket blew at well under that. For the second gasket I did the re-torquing at about 200 hundred miles. That gasket is still working OK. I can't see that Jim ever got an answer to this. I am at 150 miles after putting the head back on, I have planned a camping trip to Devon in August (only 5 weeks away) and I won't have done the Triumph recommended 500 miles till I get there (plus some local driving) ! Not wishing to risk anything going wrong, I wont be touching the engine while away, so Is it best to wait till I get back (probably 6 to 7 hundred miles) or do it now at 150 ? Bob. Edited June 27, 2020 by Lebro Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 I'd do it now, as long as it's had a couple of heat/cool cycles. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 I would do it now Bob. If it’s going to compress I’m sure it will now. Also if you need anything on your trip,I doubt you will, but just shout I’m in mid Devon, not far off the M5 Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 An interesting observation from my copy of the workshop manual (Blue cover ring binder) ... 1000mile Free Service item 2:- Change, engine oil, gearbox oil and back axle oil. Nothing about changing oil at 500miles. I do remember my Dad having 2 new cars during the '60s (a Morris 1100 in '65 and a Morris 1800S in'69) both came with the instruction .. contains running in oil, do not top up, will be changed at the first service. Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 It was the re-torquing of the head I was interested in. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 I would retorque it before you go Bob and to be honest it would be no big deal the check it when you come back. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 Do it before you go. wont hurt as its been hot/cold several times now. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 Pop in to Stuart whilst in the south west I’m sure he could fit you in Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 OK, just done it, got around ¼ turn on each (after backing off a tad), so worth doing now, will re-check next year ! Here is a table of torque settings with a NM column added from the TR2 Worshop manual. I got fed up with having to wash hands, go upstairs to look it up, so have printed this page off, & will laminate to keep in the garage. TR torque settings.pdf Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 All back together now. Odd thing was that all the rocker clearances had opened up ? Going for a test run now Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 As said above Bob, couple of hundred miles is fine for the retorque. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Lebro said: It was the re-torquing of the head I was interested in. Bob Sorry Bob, I left out that all the head nuts, exhaust nut etc are re-torqued during the 1000mile service, that was then , maybe thinking has changed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Rob Salisbury said: Sorry Bob, I left out that all the head nuts, exhaust nut etc are re-torqued during the 1000mile service, that was then , maybe thinking has changed? When I had my engine rebuilt last year I was told it didn't need retorquing, it was all done at the factory. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, DRD said: When I had my engine rebuilt last year I was told it didn't need retorquing, it was all done at the factory. 4 cylinder v 6 cylinder ? Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 12 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said: 4 cylinder v 6 cylinder ? Mick Richards It's a 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, DRD said: It's a 6 I know yours is a 6 cylinder and that they don’t normally have a retorque, but I was pointing out that Bob was posting as a 4 cylinder owner which definite does need a retorque ? Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) I put my 3A cylinder head back on top of a 2mm copper head gasket about two maybe three months ago and torqued it up as per the book to 105 ft lbs. It was surprising how much things had settled when I retorqued it last week after only firing up the engine a couple of times to set up the carburettors and not taking it out on the road yet. It’s worth doing it just for peace of mind and resetting the tappets - with a feeler gauge (!) - is a doddle. james Edited June 28, 2020 by james christie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 The gremlin with using a cheap 20w50 is that many contain quite hefty additives packs to help compensate for a cheap base oil. This doesn’t mean they are ideal for running in. There are a number of dedicated running in oils designed to allow limited wear to occur to permit bedding in of rings. Just check they have enough ZDDP to protect the cam and if not use an appropriate additive. The other key thing is to avoid being to liberal with cam lube. Use it only for the cam lobes and followers. Engine oil, lubriplate or other non MS2 lube on the bearings engine oil on the rings. Break the cam in then drive it hard enough to seat the rings. It is a misconception to think running in is about being gentle. It may have been the case with white metal bearings but ours use shells. If you have used the right ones, gapped the rings and so on it should be fine to drive quite hard. If it hasn’t seized in 50 miles it shouldn’t. As for re torquing the heads I would do this after you have had your 15 min shakedown run on the road.(by which time you will have also done 20 minutes of breaking in the cam) By this time it will have had a few heat cycles to settle the head gasket. I would pull the head down again when you drain the running in oil after 500 to 1000 miles. I would avoid synthetic and semi synthetic oils (like Millers classic sport) for this oil change as they are probably too protective to allow final bedding in so go regular mineral 20w50. Mickeys comments about booting it up a long hill is really useful. If the engine is a bit tight and gets hot doing this do it in bursts. Restricting revs to 3000 or 4000 for x number of miles and being gentle on the throttle is a recipe for glazed bores. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 52 minutes ago, james christie said: I put my 3A cylinder head back on top of a 2mm copper head gasket about two maybe three months ago and torqued it up as per the book to 105 ft lbs. It was surprising how much things had settled when I retorqued it last week after only firing up the engine a couple of times to set up the carburettors and not taking it out on the road yet. It’s worth doing it just for peace of mind and resetting the tappets - with a feeler gauge (!) - is a doddle. james Bob, You have done what I would have done, re-torque before you go on a long trip, but be sure to do a few local miles to see all is settled. James - Why a 2mm (0.080") Copper head gasket? Had you an issue with too much compression, or some exotic cylinder head rework to the chambers that required special shaping of the gasket? Or is it required with big pistons (over 87mm) to keep the CR at a sensible level when using a standard head. Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said: I know yours is a 6 cylinder and that they don’t normally have a retorque, but I was pointing out that Bob was posting as a 4 cylinder owner which definite does need a retorque ? Mick Richards Ok Mick, didn't realise there was a difference. I know there has always been a debate on this for the sixes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) “Why a 2mm (0.080") Copper head gasket? Had you an issue with too muchcompression, or some exotic cylinder head rework to the chambers a 2mm (0.080") Copper head gasket? Had you an issue with too muchcompression, or some exotic cylinder head rework to the chambers” The short answer is I believe I was about to have a problem with the compression ratio. Not a big deal with pinking so long as 98 octane is available but a compression of over 200 psi plus the diminishing availability here and elsewhere of 98 octane and the removal of the ‘ead to resolve a water jacket to n°4 cylinder encouraged me to put the 2mm gasket in (at great expense!) and reduce the CR from 10.5 to about 9.5. The chambers were a very measured 52cc with 87mm pistons. All this was calculated out in deepest Somerset and conclusions drawn. The head is a pretty standard but much skimmed 4A, coupled to a 4A inlet manifold HS6 carbs and Revington four branch exhaust. james Edited June 28, 2020 by james christie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, james christie said: “Why a 2mm (0.080") Copper head gasket? Had you an issue with too muchcompression, or some exotic cylinder head rework to the chambers a 2mm (0.080") Copper head gasket? Had you an issue with too muchcompression, or some exotic cylinder head rework to the chambers” The short answer is I believe I was about to have a problem with the compression ratio. Not a big deal with pinking so long as 98 octane is available but a compression of over 200 psi plus the diminishing availability here and elsewhere of 98 octane and the removal of the ‘ead to resolve a water jacket to n°4 cylinder encouraged me to put the 2mm gasket in (at great expense!) and reduce the CR from 10.5 to about 9.5. The chambers were a very measured 52cc with 87mm pistons. All this was calculated out in deepest Somerset and conclusions drawn. The head is a pretty standard but much skimmed 4A, coupled to a 4A inlet manifold HS6 carbs and Revington four branch exhaust. james Thanks James. You are in the same engine 'boat' as me. I too have 52cc chambers with 87mm engine. I use a steel head gasket which is under 1 mm thick but have taken a light skim off the piston crowns. Brings the CR to around 10:1 Next approach will be go to a Racetorations composite head gasket or to grind lumps out the combustion chambers like Bob has done. Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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