Starter motor woes

[Glenn_Howard]

Some advice required from the hive-mind please…

Last weekend, I had a trouble-free 130 mile round trip in my ’63 TR4. Arriving home, I parked on my drive and went to fetch the garage keys. When I returned, the car wouldn’t start.

The red ignition light dimmed when I turned the key but the only other response I could get was a loud clicking sound. I intend to investigate fully at the weekend but am I right to assume it’s probably starter motor related? If so, I imagine it’s going to be an ‘interesting experience’ removing it because I have an original unit squeezed in tightly next to a Phoenix manifold (pic below). There’s only about 12mm between the starter motor and manifold and so horizontal movement will be limited. How much diagonal/vertical movement the unit will have remains to be seen.

I’ll obviously check/clean all the electrical connections first but is there anything else I can try before I attempt to remove it? A friend suggested there might be a square shaft protruding from the end onto which I can attach a spanner to free it off. However, mine is covered by a loose fitting cap and there’s not enough space to remove it. The cap is quite brittle and so I could probably destroy it and remove it if it helped?

Unless you know of any other clever tricks, is there a way to remove the starter motor without taking carbs/manifold off?

We have such fun with our cars don’t we?

Thanks in advance!

Glenn

[TR NIALL]

Get a Long Bar and give it a Few Taps on the Outer Casing,normally gets you going.

[Nigel Triumph]

From the click and the dimming of the ignition light, it seems the solenoid is working.

 

The starter motor may have failed, or it could be the pinion has jammed in the ring gear. Sometimes it's possible to free the pinion by rocking the car back and forth in gear. This may be enough to get you going but even if it does the starter will probably need to come out to clean the pinion/bendix so the problem won't recur.

 

If rocking the car doesn't work, I'm afraid it's likely to be starter out anyway. Clearance certainly does look tight next to the exhaust.

 

 

Nigel

[RogerH]

Hi Glenn,

my money is on the battery.

 

Not enough power for the starter and so the solenoid drops out due to low volts (loaded battery).

 

Put the head lights and then try a start do the lights seriously dim - if yes , battery.

 

Could you see in the ammeter was showing a charge/discharge when driving.

 

Roger

[Glenn_Howard]

I hadn't considered the battery so I'll add that to my list of checks. It's only 2 years old and is trickle charged when not in use.

 

My ammeter has always been useless. The needle dances about more than Louie Spence and rarely settles.

 

Cheers

G

[Lebro]

+1 for checking the battery.

Have you a second car you try a jump start from ? if so worth doing before anything else.

 

Bob.

[PYU940F]

Yes that is tight up against manifold.

1/ Try jump leads, if starts then battery

2/ If does not start then starter/solenoid, if so gentle whack with handle of wire wheel hammer or similar

3/ If physical persuasion unsuccessful then to me looks like the starter motor. To me it does look "fairly well used!"

4/ Check tightness and cleanliness of battery connections

 

Simon

[Glenn_Howard]

Yes, I can try a jump start with our family car, that has a hi-spec two month old battery in it. If that doesn't work, it won't take much to persuade me to give it a good whack ????

 

Thanks all.

G

[stuartmac]

Be careful your initial rock is the right way or you might just jam it tighter. If it is jammed you will hear it click as it releases.

[peejay4A]

Your comment about ammeter behaviour is interesting. There's next to nothing to go wrong in an ammeter so I'd be inclined to trust it. Therefore its wild movements might well be an indication of another fault, probably the dynamo/regulator or alternator if you have one.

[LGFromage]

A dry joint in the ammeter shunt resistor?

 

Tim

[peejay4A]

To the best of my knowledge they're not shunted. It's usually a single turn of thick copper wire around a magnetic armature attached to the needle. Very little to go wrong.

[RogerH]

+1 - very simple design

 

Roger

[Glenn_Howard]

To clarify, my ammeter does 'kinda' work. It mostly faces down with slight shifts to the left or right depending on usage. However, the minute I drive off, the lumps and bumps in the road throw the needle about so much it's hard to get an accurate reading. Stationery readings are more reliable.

 

Thanks

Glenn

[Chris1966]

+ 1 for battery. Last year mine had worked fine, on trickle charge in garage came to start nothing but a click, did not believe it at first!

 

Chris

[cubehopper]

Sons diesel megane just had the same problem although it was showing 12 v no load.

Just solenoid clicking when trying to start it .

New battery cured it.

Dave

[LGFromage]

To the best of my knowledge they're not shunted. It's usually a single turn of thick copper wire around a magnetic armature attached to the needle. Very little to go wrong.

Except when the solder joints at each end of the thick copper wire decide to fail, and it does happen.

 

Tim

[Glenn_Howard]

A quick update:

 

I swopped the battery for one I know is good: no difference. I gave the motor a few taps with a hammer (and swore at it): no difference. I cleaned all the electrical connections from the battery, through the solenoid to the motor and... after a brief hesitation, it fired up!

 

I've successfully started it half a dozen times since and so it seems to be resolved. The big question I have now is, do I trust it and is the problem likely to re-occur?

 

I'll take a look at the ammeter tomorrow.

 

Thanks for your sage advice so far!

Glenn

[acaie]

Poor electrical conncetions from the battery to the starter will produce the symptoms you describe. Unless the connections looked really good before you cleaned them up, you can be pretty confident you have located and solved the problem.

[Westy]

Curious but your first post and description of symptoms is almost identical to mine "Starting / ignition / starter motor problem?". Not poor connections in my case, just a new battery needed.