Bertie Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Hi all, New to the Register and owner of a lovely Conifer green (Triumph racing green) March '69 Tr6 for a humble 7 months. Great site you have! 2 days ago took the 2 old girls (!?!) out to a pub and on the way home hit a bloody awful short, sharp dip on a B class road and heard a crack from the offside rear. Drove home gingerly with creaking noises. Not far though. Just investigated with bated, nervous breath and found top half of standard shock absorber missing! Bottom still attached and releived to find the arm and all still in place and no cracks etc. Half a shock now sits in a hedge somewhere I guess. That side has always seemed in pain, very hard on bumps etc. It has a new swinging arm also. The Bump Stops are in place by the way. I've ordered 2 new shocks from Rimmers which I'll fit to the the type 2 bracket already on the car. Has anyone else suffered this and are there any other underlying reasons for a shock failure in this way? Or is it, I fear, just these awful, awful roads in the UK. We could take a lesson from France!! Your thoughts? Thank you. Bertie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aardvark Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Hello Bertie and welcome. Sorry to hear your bad news. You mention standard rear shocks but then describe them as type 2's i.e. telescopic conversions. The original shocks were lever arm dampers and I would be surprised if they had failed in the way you describe. If they are tele's then I would give the trailing arm a good mk1 eyeball inspection. The force needed to destroy a tele could well have damaged it. Cheers Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Be extra carefuf as some of the replacement Tele Shocks are to long and I can't imagine Rimmers know which ones are Right and which are Wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bertie Posted June 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Thanks. Steep learning curve here! How am I to know which is the correct shock for the type 2 bracket? No info is provided when looking at the Rimmer part brochure? Would this have shown up by previous problems before with regard to length? Is the 'standard shock' (tele?) only for non improved brackets? No make is mentioned? I'm not sure of the name of the original shock that has broken, as it has a Union Jack at the base and coloured yellow. Do we have a length of shock that is compatible? So, a very close look for a hairline crack etc in the swinging arm is required? Is possible the tele shock has failed? Perhaps a complete removal of the complete suspension unit now required? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bertie Posted June 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 I apologise for the confusion Niall and Dave. Thank you. I meant the 'standard' tele shock ( I think they are Spax, ie yellow) and nothing uprated. Surely these would fit the type 2 bracket as Rimmer advertise? There would be many other threads with shock failures perhaps? Bertie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 There was recent discussion on how critical shock absorber length is. But my suggestion is to take an old shock to a parts supplier and get replacements with the same extended and retracted lengths. These cars are nearly 50 years old and a lot of modifications have been made to most through the years, some times involving hard learned lessons by the owners at the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jerrytr5 Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Bertie, using the word 'standard' for a telescopic rear damper is going to be confusing as there is no such thing. The standard damper as fitted by Triumph is a lever arm. You will need to remove the rear road spring and then fit the replacement damper. Jack up the trailing arm and check that the bump stop connects with the trailing arm before the damper is fully compressed. If the damper compresses fully first then you run the risk of breaking the trailing arm. Check both sides. They will be different. Or go back to lever arms. Jerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 There have been numerous telescopic shock conversions offered by TR specialists over the past 40 years - many may look similar to others, but nevertheless differ in detail . . . . . and the individual shock absorber was often enough specified for the particular conversion kit. All a bit of a minefield I'm afraid, and it would help if you could be certain as to just which conversion kit you have fitted - then you have at least a chance of sourcing a shock as originally specified. Mind you, not all kits specified an appropriate length shocker in the first place, leading to trailing arm damage in due course . . . . Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 +1 for Alec. Bertie can we have a photo? Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Follow jerrytr5's advice in Post 7 above. At the moment remove Spring and Shock on the good side and do what Jerry has advised above at least then you'll know weather you have the correct Shock for the type of Bracket your using,your Trailing Arms will also appriceate you getting the correct length Shocks if sticking with the Type 2 Brackets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bertie Posted June 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Thanks for your advice gents. The bracket is the Rimmer type 2 bracket as confirmed in the cars vast annual of receipts. I beleive this can only fit in one place and less likely to cause problems compared to an ill fitted type one for instance? I have ordered a dual pair of the Spax tele shocks (adjustable) and will take full extension and compression measurements of the shock. (Set it mid way and then drive it to assess it's drive.) Then I will take measurements of BOTH sides to ensure the shocks have sufficient space to do their jobs. I will go round both swinging arms with my search lamp to check for cracks, particularly where bolts etc are attached. The failed side is a brand new swinging arm, offside, which is the less common side to fail. Rather intriguing .... Previous problems? A friend has suggested, and I'm initialy inclined to agree, that it's possible this shock has become defective (loss of oil perhaps?) but close measuring will help put my mind at rest. Will get to work on her tomorrow, Friday and see what we find! Fingers crossed.. Thanks. Bertie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Bertie you say Replacement New Trailing Arm,maybe the old one was smashed where the Shock mounts due to wrong length Shocks previously fitted,it has been highlighted before and is a known problem.Set you New Shocks to 0 and work from there,from expireance midway is to Hard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bertie Posted June 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 I've stuck these 3 on. Apologies for the poor clarity but I couldn't get the wheel off as the jack had reached full travel almost! Hence the squeeze greeting my IPad round! I'll have two jacks tomorrow plus axle stands for safety. I'm going to jack the car up via the diff to look at the old girls geometry with both units sen from the rear. Is ok to do so? Niall, ok, I'll set it at zero initialy and let you all know how we get on. Will take your advice. Thank you. Has anyone heard of a tele shock letting go on a standard road (non racing) Tr6 before? I was struggling to find a thread on this, hence the new one. Bertie. Ps, put a couple of her in the sunshine too. I have had the windscreen frame painted as it was with the '69 model. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Self-destructing rear teles are not uncommon - usually a result of too short a travel . . . . eventually shock or trailing arm breaks - or both. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 I have seen that type of break when the top nuts have been wound up too tight on the rubbers ,with the geometry of the trailing arm as it comes up it moves the top of the shock away from the upright in a bit of an arc, often you will see wear in the mounting hole too. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Bertie, I had to have rear shocks made to length for my TR6 (1" longer) as standard shocks did not cover the bump stop to fully extended (drooped) operating range, Indecently these took about two weeks from order and were the same price as standard shocks. Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bertie Posted June 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Thanks. God, how to simulate how the shock 'talks' to the Trailing arm (and Vicky versa) with reference to Stuart and Alalns comments... In other words set it up as best as one can measure all round after checking for 'collateral' damage. It seems i may try straight forward shock failure (keeping it simple principle?) and see how I get on with ref to the previous rhetoric, providing I don't find further problems. Bit of a grey area here? Lots to check! But, Thank you. Will see what happens... Will keep in touch. Bertie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ragtag Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 I don't see why this should be a 'grey area'. Rimmers supply the bracket as a kit with a recommended shock. It should be correct, straight from the box, or it isn't fit for purpose. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rockie51 Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Maybe I am not seeing the photos correctly but it looks like the shock is mounted upside down. It looks like the shock has broken at the bottom but the broken piece is mounted to the mount on the body where the top would normally go. Or is that some kind of protective rubber sleeve that I am seeing? Not sure whether mounting them upside down would cause extra strain. Just as an aside, I seem to recall that the Konis that are sold for TR telescopic conversions also fit Ford Pintos. Should we be worried? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bertie Posted June 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 No, Rockie, That is the sleeve I have left in place, the shock is the right way up. I'll start removing it all today. Indeed Rgatad. My thoughts exactly. The type 2 and associated shock 'should' fit. I spoke to a well seasoned Rimmer manager and says this is very rare. The type 2 and shock kit, he states, has been around a very long time and have proven very popular. If the shock was er.. Dying, then it's potential to return to it's original position, the rebound, then it may remain compressed or otherwise and eventually breaks - my main worry is the stress has put on the Swinging arm.. Will know more later today after having to finish work early. Pain.. I see why travelling in France with Classic cars (just done 700 miles on an old Triumph motorcycle - bliss!!) is becoming more and more popular. We have a long, bumpy way to go in this country. Disgraceful. Ranting over!! Bertie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aardvark Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Bertie. Have you considered going back to lever arms? Not as razor sharp a ride but it takes it back to how the car was designed and is probably more tolerant of bad roads (?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bertie Posted June 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Well, It appears the shock was unscrewing itself over time and the remaining 2/3 threads sheared on that bump as can be seen on the photo. So the whole shock is still there. The arm, as you can see, is very new and all good. Measurements taken and 2 new Spax shocks fitted.. Transformed the cars handling - no more over steer and bottoming out. Very sweet indeed! I wonder why it can unscrew itself? The old shocks are very tired indeed with no adjustable movement on them at all. The screws clickover 70 times and kept going! Took a vice and Mole grips to pull the piston out and push them in again, unlike the new ones. I wonder how many old cars are driving around with tired old chocks?? Thanks for all you input and advice. Back in the road again! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keith66 Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 An interesting problem and it makes you think. My 6 has a different but similar rear damper set up, with the brackets linking to the lever arm mounting point, other versions attaching only to the inner wheel arch don't inspire me with much confidence. But thinking about it all why have i changed from the "original" factory design to an aftermarket solution, with unbranded (cheap?) dampers? So my question isnt the merits ot not of any specific aftermarket solution but do i swap out the cheapo looking damper units for a better quality item or go back to the original lever arms? If i go back to lever arms do i get my originals refurbished to a high standard or buy ones, such as those at Rimmer (or similar) probably cheap copies made in China? I'm not against updates and modifications (hence the tele's at the rear) but over time I'm begining to think that the character of a classic car is not necessarily retained if every modern update possible is used and as was said earlier by Aardvark lever arms probably better represent what the car was supposed to drive like. So that three questions, new tele's or lever arms, if lever's new or rebuilt and does anyone know anyone good who will do a proper job on rebuilding old lever arms, preferably in the West Midlands/Bham area. Cheers Keith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 An interesting problem and it makes you think. My 6 has a different but similar rear damper set up, with the brackets linking to the lever arm mounting point, other versions attaching only to the inner wheel arch don't inspire me with much confidence. But thinking about it all why have i changed from the "original" factory design to an aftermarket solution, with unbranded (cheap?) dampers? So my question isnt the merits ot not of any specific aftermarket solution but do i swap out the cheapo looking damper units for a better quality item or go back to the original lever arms? If i go back to lever arms do i get my originals refurbished to a high standard or buy ones, such as those at Rimmer (or similar) probably cheap copies made in China? I'm not against updates and modifications (hence the tele's at the rear) but over time I'm begining to think that the character of a classic car is not necessarily retained if every modern update possible is used and as was said earlier by Aardvark lever arms probably better represent what the car was supposed to drive like. So that three questions, new tele's or lever arms, if lever's new or rebuilt and does anyone know anyone good who will do a proper job on rebuilding old lever arms, preferably in the West Midlands/Bham area. Cheers Keith Hi Keith I bought the Moss uprated levers (very happy with them) but I would of used http://www.stevsonmotors.co.uk/Dampers.html but they were very busy at the time and I was desperate to get some working ones on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 Hi Keith, the originals can and do work well but people only ever see duff/used ones so they get a reputation. As per Steve - get the old ones up rated or buy the Moss offerings. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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