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I currently have a set of 4.5J x 15 60 spoke chrome wheels (MWS type) with 165 x 15 radial tyres on my TR3.

 

I also have a spare wheel/tyre to the same specification, unfortunately there is no way will it fit into the spare wheel compartment.

 

Consequently, I was wondering whether a 4 x 15 48 spoke wheel with a 155 x 15 radial tyre would fit into the wheel compartment. I appreciate this is mixing up wheel/tyre sizes etc, but it would be like a 'space saver' arrangement just to get home.

 

I understand from MWS that both the 4J and 4.5J wheels have the same centres so will fit on the same centre lock hubs/splines.

 

Very grateful for any advice.

 

Rob

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This is the arrangement I have in my car (post 60k TR3A).

 

60 spokes on the car with 165 tyres (Michelin XZX). 48 spoke in the boot with a 155 tyre (whatever Stuart put on there when he sorted it out for me).

 

I know there are questions about mixing tyres but I'll make that call if and when I have a problem. If it pops on a dual carriageway hundreds of miles from home, I'll probably call the AA and get a lift back (or to a tyre place). If it goes 20 miles from home and it's all B roads, I'll swap it over (or get the AA to do it as to be honest, I haven't got round to buying a jack!).

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Later TR3A and 3B cars have a raised section pressing in the boot floor above the spare wheel compartment. The rise is about 1/2", so gives clearance for the bigger wheel size (4 1/2" 60 spoke wires) in the spare wheel hole.

 

The TR2/3 has what is best described as a flat (but ribbed) boot floor above the spare wheel compartment.

...and yes 4" wide 48 spoke with 155/80/15 tyre is the correct route for a spare.

 

Peter W

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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Rob,

 

Without being gloomy, if/when you get a puncture and change your normal wheel for the spare (which will be illegal due to being a different size), where are you going to stow the removed wheel with the puncture? You have already established that it will not fit in the spare wheel compartment.

 

David

Edited by david ferry
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Worst case scenario, shove it behind the front seats.

 

I've not tried it myself, but from what I've heard, a 60 spoke wheel won't fit in the later post 60k wheel well either. Or it might with the tyre deflated, which won't be an issue if you've got a flat.

 

Other option is to buy 48 spokes and 155 tyres all round.

Edited by rhino_mac
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Thanks for your replies.

 

I'll give it a go with a 4J x 15" 48 spoke wheel and a 155 x 15 tyre and trust that it will squeeze in. The wheel well as you all know is very tight for space.

 

As to where the punctured tyre/wheel may go - I'll wrap it in plastic and store it behind front seats - it just about fits even with the hood up.

 

Rob

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Rob,

 

Just to highlight your possible choice, " fitting a different size tyre, it would just be like a space saver" ...afraid not.

 

The only organisation who can decide whether to supply a space saver is the manufacturer of the car who covers the supplied wheel and tyre within its "Whole vehicle type approval" certification. This means they get a derogation ( get out of jail free card) from the Construction and Use requirements which state it's illegal to use different size wheel or tyres on the same axle (includes independent suspension).

They get the derogation having supplied technical proof the wheel and tyre supplied by them as a space saver has been tested in use and approved as satisfactory over a short journey and limited mph when used with the other tyres on the car. They then cover the space saver within their product liability plan so that when it blows out and catapults your car onto the East Coast line causing a Dual train derailment which kills multiple people and costs the insurance company £22 million quid ( Google the Selby train crash) the Police and the courts have somebody with enormous financial resources to pay the fine.

Unfortunately Triumph never manufactured cars under the "Whole Vehicle " scheme ( came in 1994 as I remember it) and so no space saver specified and approved and so no covering plan to allow anybody to fit a wheel which contravenes Construction and Use regulations.

Of course when you tell your insurance company you plan to use a non C&U tyre size ( you were...weren't you ?) because your planned tyre doesn't comply to space saver requirements ( enhanced grip with softer tyre compound to help ameleorise it's narrower section...oh and it's a cross ply tyre mixed on an axle which has radial fitted , illegal anyway) I expect they may not want to offer cover. I spent the last 25 years of my career developing specialised commercial vehicles and "tap dancing" my way through " Type Approval " requirements on vehicles and bodywork, including testifying in two cases where operators had changed vehicle specification from that supplied contravening those regulations.

 

Check out the Health and Safety posting about 2 pages earlier in the New content forum.

 

Losing your TR is the least of your problems if this scenario is allowed to play out, your call but I would be very wary of putting yourself in the frame because as the Selby crash shows bad things happen.

 

Mick Richards

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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48 spoke wire were never really up to the job on a TR anyway.

 

Use a 4.5 wheel with a 165 tyre fitted and deflated to fit in your spare wheel well,

and carry a 12v compressor to fit in a cigarette light or with crocodile clips on the battery to inflate if needed.

 

Put your flat punctered wheel back in the spare wheel well and drive home both safely and legally!

 

Simples!

 

John.

Edited by john
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My spare is a 48-spoke 4-inch wheel with 155/80-15 tire. Road wheels are 60-spoke 4 1/2-inch with 165/80-15.

 

Driving a short distance if needed causes me no concern with the 48-spokes and tiny rolling diameter difference. I'm not aware of any regulations in my US state that I'm breaking. (Although I won't guarantee there isn't some obscure one nobody cares about). Fits in the tire compartment like it was meant to -- tight enough not to rattle, but removeable.

Edited by Don H.
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Hi Folks,

I'm amazed that this is a problem.

I understand Mick's point about type approval etc.

However the TR2/3 came out when things where just 'slapped' together and was acceptable.

 

The original wheel/tyre combination was not good - but the insurance are happy with this.

Upgraded wheels/tyres are acceptable to the insurers.

 

Why doesn't somebody (FBHVC or even the TRR) test a combination of 4J or 4.5J wheels with 155 tyre fitted to 5.5J/165 axles etc assemblies and present this to the DVLC/insurance for their approval.

 

There are only a handful of these cars on the road and the number of punctures must be small - the risk factor must be extraordinarily small.

A bigger risk is to use 4.5J with 48 spokes and throw that around - history knows what will happen but apparently it is acceptable.

 

Roger

Edited by RogerH
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Apart from the insurance angle Roger, the fitment of cross ply tyres on one side of the car and radial tyres on the other side of the car is illegal, directly contravenes C&U.

The reason these directives exist is not to make it harder for TR owners but to stop a mix of tyre fitments killing somebody, after all we are all aware that legally cross ply tyres are allowed on the front ( both sides) and radials fitted to the rear ( both sides) aren't we ? The reason it's allowed this way is that the superior grip of the radial tyres keeps the rear end planted, whereas the crossply loses grip quicker and so the car under steers at corners which the driver can control by driving slower. A rogue crossply fitted anywhere on the car gives a possible mix of handling where the driver cannot predict how to combat it, it's dangerous, it's illegal, it will void your insurance, (why should a insurance company cover it ? It is a uncalcable risk).

Alter the boot floor to take a comparable size tyre you are using on the car ? no risk, legal, insurable. Carry the spare on a boot rack, no risk, legal, insurable. Select a cross ply tyre size as being your choice of tyre for the car, no risk, legal, insurable ( this is where drivers say I prefer radials because they are safer with improved grip) only when there are 4 fitted and not mixed on an axle I'm afraid.

 

Sometimes we have to abide by the law or accept that we break it at our risk. I'm happy with that I'm just not sure that all the other drivers on the roads in the UK will accept the risk that my choice of tyres may involve them in my accident.

 

Mick Richards

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One of the PO in South Africa obviosly had this problem and has cut out the boot floor section and installed a removable lid allowing access to the spare. You just lift the panel and lift out the wheel. W£orks ok for me and you cant see it under the carpet so would never know it had been done.

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One of the PO in South Africa obviosly had this problem and has cut out the boot floor section and installed a removable lid allowing access to the spare. You just lift the panel and lift out the wheel. W£orks ok for me and you cant see it under the carpet so would never know it had been done.

Also the same mod carried out by Fireman Tom, looks very neat , and as you say undetectable under the carpet.

 

Mick Richards

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Hi Mick,

I agree totally with all you say; but could a radial tyre be fitted to a slimmer wheel.

The problem then is only one of size (width).

 

I appreciate I'm battling a theoretical challenge but it jiggles my brain that modern cars can have a space saver because the manufacturer said so but we can't

mainly because we haven't got a manufacturer - even if it was possible to prove it was.

 

I wonder if BMW would like to get involved. After all they are now the owners and many TR drivers own BMW's

 

Come on FBHVC, give them a challenge.

 

Roger

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Hi

 

I am travelling and unable to see the exact tyre that solved my identical problem,. The tyre shop used a Citroen 2CV tyre which is about the same height and fits with loads of space to spare.

Edited by qim
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Tom

I see you put the spare wheel upside down in the well, as do I. I then have all my spare hoses stored in the wheel and on top of that I have a 32mm thick round board sitting in the rim with the jack, handle and mallet laying in it, as I have routed out the board to the shape of the parts, only have a small slot right through the board to get the jack´s base in lower enough to slide the spare wheel into the standard wheel well.

My spare is a 60 spoke with 155 x 15 tyre on it, so for a get you home solution, I don't see that the difference in the tyre width to the 165 x 15 fitted on the car normally is going to make all that difference. Obviously I would reduce my speed to a max of say 50mph while the narrower one Is on the car. Fortunately, I have never had to use it so far, so touch wood it will be O.K. as per my thoughts.

I wonder how many members are trying to get the wheel in with the hub up???.

BTW Tom I am going to send you a P.M that has nothing to do with this topic.

 

Dave

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Just a further update. The solution that John suggested of using a 4.5J x 15 wheel and deflating the tyre is a nice idea. However, I have tried a spare rim only without tyre fitted and I can't even get this in the tyre well! Admittedly, the strap bracket and strap itself doesn't help but even removing these would still mean forcing the wheel in. I note the comments about having the wheel upside down - better try that first- although I still don't think it will go. Perhaps early TR3's (TS13075) had a more restricted boot well opening.

 

I respect the comments on different wheel sizes but I am thinking only on a 4J wheel x 15 with a 155 radial tyre not a cross ply.

 

Rob

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I use a 4j wheel with a 145 tyre, as used on Citroën 2cv. Its used to get the car to the nearest village/ workshop, not to rally at full speed. In My modern car theres a very small wheel just to bring home. Fully legal, to a max of 50 km per hour.

 

Fits the compartiment Very Well leaving lots of room For spares.

Edited by EdwinTiben
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I note the comments about having the wheel upside down - better try that first- although I still don't think it will go.

I think the only chance you have is upside down, Rod. If works better than you'd think. Early cars *are* tighter as I recall, so it'll be tight if it does go.

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My spare is a 165 x 15 on 4.5 60 spoke rims. It is a tight fit but has a handy rope strop looped through the rim so that you can play tug-of-war with it! :D

 

post-13503-0-40693100-1495786198_thumb.jpg

 

Another member on here suggested to me that "easing" the tyre compartment by putting a scissor jack and a plank of wood below and on top of the jack and stretching the space helps on the basis that the boot floor will have sagged over the years..................

Edited by Ben Freer
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Another member on here suggested to me that "easing" the tyre compartment by putting a scissor jack and a plank of wood below and on top of the jack and stretching the space helps on the basis that the boot floor will have sagged over the years..................

That is very often true as its quite a large unsupported area and has often dropped by an inch or more.

Stuart.

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Darrel at Racetorations started removing the boot floors 30 yrs ago on rest projects,i followed suit, it free's up so much space + you can permanently fix the spare wheel door and get a decent gap all round and don't wobble about. 48 spoke 155s nowt wrong with em at all.

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