Basic knowledge when running a sidescreen

[irrational]

Hi all.

 

I started a new thread as the other one about the new car has likely run its course and I have some newbie technical questions that are needing answers I can't exactly find at the moment.

 

First:

Temperature.

It seems that the running temp for a TR2 is roughly 180-190 F.

What is "SHUT OFF!" temperature? 210? 220?

When I am standing still I can see the temperature rising by about 10 before traffic starts moving and it cools down again.

Possible causes for higher temperature without any leaks. Would too thin oil cause this?

Is Evans waterless coolant worth looking into?

I do not really want to install an electric fan, but my extra higher flow fan (sharper blade angles) is metal and seems quite old and used. But maybe that will help too?

I am thinking I'll have to go the radiator re-core route for peace of mind though.

My Porsche is perfect being air cooled, but I am very scared of overheating a water cooled engine.

 

Second:

Oil.

What are the main sources/locations for oil leaks? Are any serious fixes?

What are the acceptable oil pressure ranges when hot/cold at low/high revs?

Third:

Tyres.

I currently have 165's on.

I have already established that lightly accelerating around a corner even the 165's can squeal.

Is it worth trying to find correct 155 period tyres? The Michelins? Vredestein? Others?

Fourth:

Choke. Around here the average temperatures are roughly 17C winter and 28C summer. It seems like the choke can be dispensed with in summer and off pretty quickly otherwise.

Any issues or recommendations using the choke?

Fifth:

Steering.

The steering seems fine. I would just like to know if there are any specific warning signs that something isn't right other than excessive play.

 

Sixth:

Other.

Any general technical things that one should perhaps be aware of? It seems like the TR2s are very solid in general and not much is likely to go wrong.

 

d

[EdwinTiben]

Hi all.

 

I started a new thread as the other one about the new car has likely run its course and I have some newbie technical questions that are needing answers I can't exactly find at the moment.

 

First:

Temperature.

It seems that the running temp for a TR2 is roughly 180-190 F.

What is "SHUT OFF!" temperature? 210? 220?

When I am standing still I can see the temperature rising by about 10 before traffic starts moving and it cools down again.

Possible causes for higher temperature without any leaks. Would too thin oil cause this?

Is Evans waterless coolant worth looking into?

I do not really want to install an electric fan, but my extra higher flow fan (sharper blade angles) is metal and seems quite old and used. But maybe that will help too?

I am thinking I'll have to go the radiator re-core route for peace of mind though.

My Porsche is perfect being air cooled, but I am very scared of overheating a water cooled engine.

 

Second:

Oil.

What are the main sources/locations for oil leaks? Are any serious fixes?

What are the acceptable oil pressure ranges when hot/cold at low/high revs?

Third:

Tyres.

I currently have 165's on.

I have already established that lightly accelerating around a corner even the 165's can squeal.

Is it worth trying to find correct 155 period tyres? The Michelins? Vredestein? Others?

Fourth:

Choke. Around here the average temperatures are roughly 17C winter and 28C summer. It seems like the choke can be dispensed with in summer and off pretty quickly otherwise.

Any issues or recommendations using the choke?

Fifth:

Steering.

The steering seems fine. I would just like to know if there are any specific warning signs that something isn't right other than excessive play.

 

Sixth:

Other.

Any general technical things that one should perhaps be aware of? It seems like the TR2s are very solid in general and not much is likely to go wrong.

 

d

I already started to answer in the former thread

 

1) Temp

 

from experience my tr2 with a regular thermostat, without kenlow en standard radiator could rise as 210 without really boiling, but i thnk thats the max..

 

my answer in the other thread:

As in heat, you could check the thermostat. it should be an original skirted one to have the right flow. the modern ones dont block off the bypass hose..

 

somehting like this:

 

 

Some info on the skirted:

http://www.tr3a.info/thermostat.htm

 

I dont have a kenlow , but use a aluminium radiator, 6 blade original tropical fan and the correct bellows skirted thermostat. even in hot italian weather, traffic jam, the temp stays in the 180-185 range..

[j-eichert]

Hello "d",

 

1) Temperature: These are true temperature readings (unlike modern cars typically giving you one reading in the center "ok" range).

So if the car is standing, the energy stored inside the head heats up water, which goes up to the thermostat housing. Once the water pump is running again, the temperature drops fast. So nothing wrong with this reaction. Same applies to traffic jams or slow moving traffic: The engine misses rpm for water pump and ventilator plus the effect of wind speed.

Running with 25 mph behind a caravan uphill in the Alpes gives higher temperature than climbing up with 45 mph....

Typical running temperature seems ok - but is a mater of the individual instrument (it may be out of "calibration") - so learn your typical readings and react if there is untypical behaviour.

 

Thin oil has nothing to do with the water temperatures.

There is no "limiter" - at a certain point the thermostat is fully open and the radiator reduces water temperature,.... worst case you are running on higher temperatures.

In my eyes an electric fan is not really necessary, I managed without up to now. More important is water flow and unblocked passages - so a re-core may be usefull if the radiator is blocked.

 

2) Oil.

What are the main sources/locations for oil leaks? Are any serious fixes?

Oil pressure ranges: up to 70/80 psi when cold and higher revs. There is a spring loaded limiter to adjust this if the pressure goes up to high. At idle/ hot oil there should be more than 20 psi left - exceeding 50 at 2000 rpm.

3) Tyres: 165's is ok, no need to go smaller

4) Choke: Once the engine runs smooth without: Stop using it - you will get used to it fast.

5) Steering: Play starts typically around the center position if it is the original worm & peg.

 

Regards, Johannes

[Guest]

What the others said.

 

Tyre squeal can be caused because the tyres are old. I had a set of old 165s on my Porsche. Roadholding was awful and the slightest steering correction caused the sound of a Hollywood car chase... New Vredesteins (you can't go wrong with these!) cured the noise and the roadholding improved dramatically.

 

Menno

[j-eichert]

There may be other reasons for tire squeal as well.....

 

Johannes.

[irrational]

Thanks for the info!

I feel much better about it all now and I topped up the lubricants and water. It should be good now.

No water leaks at least.

I ordered some gasket sets and hoses to replace things as I have spotted a few leaky oil spots.

 

Attached is an image of the fan I have for more airflow.

No idea where it is from, but the previous owner said it fits. His father serviced/maintained Triumphs from his garage, explaining why this one is mechanically good.

 

Dirk

Edited May 8, 2017 by irrational

[stuart]

That looks like the "Tropical" fan available as an optional extra.

Stuart.

[EdwinTiben]

Thanks for the info!

I feel much better about it all now and I topped up the lubricants and water. It should be good now.

No water leaks at least.

I ordered some gasket sets and hoses to replace things as I have spotted a few leaky oil spots.

 

Attached is an image of the fan I have for more airflow.

No idea where it is from, but the previous owner said it fits. His father serviced/maintained Triumphs from his garage, explaining why this one is mechanically good.

 

Dirk

As stuart Said, thats an optional tropical fan. With a good engine and radiator in combi with a bellows and this fan, i dont think a kenlow would do better.

 

Recoring your rad and dropping the hole would be a good initial step, plus fitting the fan.

[McMuttley]

We fitted a smallish 10" electric pusher fan with manual override switch and I have to say that it removed a great deal of potential angst when sitting in traffic, especially after / during a hot run. Immediately after switching on, even with a reconditioned good quality rad' the temps visibly dropped as soon as the fan came on. The purists may not prefer them, but I would strongly recommend, esp' if you encounter slow moving traffic.

[irrational]

I have another silly question (which is likely in the manual somewhere. Apologies if I haven't looked!)

 

Should I get Imperial wrench/socket sets for the TR? Mine is specified as Imperial instruments. I was just wondering if the original bolts etc. are metric or imperial.

I am not sure how to measure this.

 

I have briefly read through the owner's manual and see it basically points to an annual re-grease, re-oil and clean of everything, including bearing grease etc.

I was just wondering how thorough everyone is with this kind of lubrication maintenance. I'd probably try to be as complete and thorough as I can, jsut to be on the safe side.

 

Dirk

[rhino_mac]

My engine was rebuilt recently (about 2500 miles ago) and the cooling system completely changed (waterpump, rad, thermostat, hoses etc). In moving traffic, I get 140-160 Deg F on my temperature gauge (depending on weather) which creeps up to a little over 185 if sat still for about 5 minutes in traffic. I've seen around 210 Deg F in hot weather sitting still but it's never overheated.

 

Before the rebuild my car overheated for a pastime. The cause was a semi-blocked radiator and a silted up number 4 cylinder so I would recommend checking these first. Also, the cardboard shroud is a must have to keep the car cool as the air flows around the rad rather than through it. I kept the hole in my rad for originality but by buying one without you can significantly increase the cooling capacity.

 

In terms of re-greasing I would say this is an absolute must. Since my rebuild (18 months, 2500 miles) my car is starting to creak a little so I must book it in with Stuart for a service! If you can do it at home I'd say regrease as regularly as you can be bothered with.

 

Everything should be imperial on your car unless someone has bodged it with a modern nut/bolt.

[stuart]

 

 

Everything should be imperial on your car unless someone has bodged it with a modern nut/bolt.

What like yours was! :lol:

Stuart.

[rhino_mac]

Harsh Stuart.

 

Harsh but true unfortunately. I'll PM you about that service!

[irrational]

I suspect most things on this car is bog standard.

After some inspection I ordered every single gasket I could find. So many little seepages.

The car was not used much the last few years. I suspect a good clean and some use will result in a much cleaner look with less gummy residue all over.

 

I noticed the sediment container in the fuel system is rather yucky as expected.

And this all means rad flush and oil replace is on the cards as soon as I have new hoses and gaskets.

And now I have to get some greasing items as well so that can start. Its going to be a very busy month or 2...

[Alec Pringle]

" Its going to be a very busy month or 2... "

 

No, think year or three . . . . . . !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[EdwinTiben]

.

 

.. the cardboard shroud is a must have to keep the car cool as the air flows around the rad rather than through it.

 

.

The tr2 doesnt use a cardboard shroud, the nose acts like one already

[EdwinTiben]

I suspect most things on this car is bog standard.

After some inspection I ordered every single gasket I could find. So many little seepages.

The car was not used much the last few years. I suspect a good clean and some use will result in a much cleaner look with less gummy residue all over.

 

I noticed the sediment container in the fuel system is rather yucky as expected.

And this all means rad flush and oil replace is on the cards as soon as I have new hoses and gaskets.

And now I have to get some greasing items as well so that can start. Its going to be a very busy month or 2...

The fun starts !!

 

I have added an extra fuel filter to the system to avoid any sediment in the pump or carbs.

 

I recommend adding a master power switch between pluspole and solenoid. If theres any shortage you can switch off the supply from the cockpit. Also acts as a little prevention from carjacking:

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by EdwinTiben

[Richardtr3a]

My overheating was primarily caused by the engine builder who failed to get the liners all at the correct height in spite of giving him a copy of the page out of the manual.

 

I then fitted an uprated re cored radiator with the vertical tubes offset, no starter hole, a blanking only cap and the correct thermostat The overflow pipe is connected to a bottle on the inner wing with a 4 lb cap. I also have the ducting and a Kenlowe pusher.

 

After all this the overheating has been cured. This was all a long time ago so it works.

 

Good luck, Richard & H.

[rhino_mac]

The tr2 doesnt use a cardboard shroud, the nose acts like one already

Ahhh, missed the small fact it was a TR2

[irrational]

Any advice on using a product like Wynn's Cooling System flush and other cleaning products for both engine grime and cooling system?

I wouldn't want to damage anything of course and using that seems to indicate just adding it to the system, implying that it will go through the engine as well as the radiator.

As far as I know Wynn's are generally pretty good.

 

I will recondition the carbs although judging by the driving experience the car is actually performing very well. The ease with which it reaches 80-85 mph indicates that the engine is running properly.

[irrational]

I have now driven quite a bit more, monitoring everything.

My word its a wonderful car. Enjoyable on so many levels! As with the Porsche I don't see myself ever selling it.

 

It seems that the car is losing water somewhere, but I can't see where.

The temperature is actually excellent. It seems to be around 160 F +/- 10 average driving and traffic.

The rising to 180-200 is due to water loss.

 

I can't see where it loses water from though. There is no obvious dripping from any pipes or the radiator itself.

The pump seal seems intact and fine.

The cap seems intact and sealing properly too. Its rubber seal is good and the spring is strong. It also clearly is long enough to go to the bottom of the neck.

 

So perhaps the leak is just a slow one while driving. Could this be out of the overflow pipe under pressure?

 

Any ideas how I can go about finding this little leak? Places I should look?

It seems to lose about 3 liters of water in 60km, which is rather a lot for not having an obvious leak.

 

Other than that, after some use there seems to be a lot less oil leaking so it likely was, as expected, some dried out seals that are now sealing properly.

 

Another question is what would symptoms be on low gearbox oil?

I notice the first gear specifically becomes trickier after heating up. I have to sometimes double clutch to get it in smoothly when stopped. It seems to slide in easier at about 2 000 RPM then.

The owner did tell me the clutch sometimes slips. Could a slightly warn clutch cause first gear specifically to be harder to engage?

 

Dirk

[Graham Harris]

You do realise there are is no synchromesh in first gear so you need to come to a complete stop or double the clutch for a smooth engagement, also the loss of 3lts of water is a lot you would have to see it coming out somewhere . You could be overfilling the radiator . it only needs to cover the filler neck by about 1/4 inch if you over fill it will push the excess out down to that level.

 

Graham

[Guest]

Check the neck of the radiator on where it connects to the radiator. Like mine, it can loose water at the lower part. As does mine...

 

Menno

[irrational]

Thanks Graham.

 

I'll have a look at the overfill. I did not know how to measure the right amount of water.

 

As for the non-synchro. I am aware. 8)

Mostly the gear slots in without an issue. Slightly heavily sometimes but no grinding as such. I found the last drive I had that 1st would sometimes scream a bit. Similar to when one tries to change without using a clutch. The double clutch would alleviate that for most part though. I must admit I have never driven a non-synchro box before, so I am not sure if this is normal. The usual heavy feel seems like it would be normal, but the screaming bit not.

Its as if there is an initial non-alignment of rotating parts and then pushing the gear lever further its heavier than usual, but slots in. Perhaps this just needs some getting used to.

My first 911 had a non-existent 1st gear synchro, so I remember well how to carefully manage that. No 1st while moving!

 

@Menno

I have read your thread as well and I will be keeping a close eye on that, thanks. It could be that when heated and pressured, water is forced out somewhere like that.

I wish I could go about this in a sciency way and add colouring stain. Then it is much easier to spot!

 

Dirk

[keithm]

Dirk Quick Google search came up with this at B&Q

 

ROTHENBERGER DRAIN TRACING DYE 200 G

 

(for plumbers) might work

 

Keith