LED

[Guest ntc]

Please read Traction I did say so.

[iain]

Very cryptic Neil....

[Graham]

Please read Traction I did say so.

Oh dear I've got LED's AND braided hoses ready to go on BUO……looks like they will be consigned to the box of 'seemed like a good idea at the time' items I appear to be acumlating !

[TR5tar]

Good article on pages 36-37 of TRaction about LED replacements. It's certainly made me reconsider.

 

Darren

[Bodiam]

Have just received TRaction and read the article on LED's to which Neil referred earlier.

 

The issue of compliance with the regulations is of course a very serious concern, but on a practical level, I would like to share an experience last year which almost led to a brown trouser moment involving LED's.

 

Following another 6 on a local trip, I noticed he had his sidelights permanently switched on. As they were so bright, I concluded they were LED lights. However, the first time he braked in front of me, the difference between tail light only and tail light plus brake light was so slight that it took me a split second to realise he was braking, hence the flat spots on my tyres and the change of underwear almost needed.

 

Needless to say, I doubled the space between him and me for the remainder of the run and resolved not to fit LED's to my stop and tail lights in case I should cause someone following to remodel the rear of my car!

 

John

[Lebro]

To be fair, there is no excuse for the tail lamp intensity to be close to the stop lamp intensity, The intensity of LED lamps is basically controlled by the amount of current passing through them, this in turn is set by the series resistance values used.

It is perfectly possible to make the tail intensity as low as you like. What is normally more difficult is getting enough brightness out of the led's for stop lamp use.

 

Bob.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Thank you for the excellent product Bob.

 

If my brake lamps get any where near 'dazzle' I am pleased, as it may deter the EuroBox brigade from running into/onto the 'cute little sports car'

 

Peter W

[TR5tar]

Personally, I think a good, bright LED brake light is safer and I do have them, but having read the article I have to say I now worry about the legality (more specifically the possible fine) and the implications for insurance. It would be interesting to get a perspective from the Register's insurance firm (or Derek). It would also be interesting to hear if anyone has been fined for using them.

 

Darren

[Guest ntc]

Darren

My nephew is a mot testing station inspector and told me that he had been told to fail led lights retro fitted to exsiting housings

[TR5tar]

I was worried about that when I had mine MOTd a couple of weeks back. The tester asked if they were LEDs and I thought "'ere we go", I said that they were and he said he thought they were a good idea and carried on with the test, so I suppose it varies from station to station. Still, given that article I'll probably change back to standard lights.

 

Darren

[Peter Cobbold]

I suppose a modern auxilliary rear fog led lamp would be legal?

[Drewmotty]

I suppose that an auxiliary high level led brake light would be ok too as long as it is a complete compliant unit.

Meanwhile the odds of getting fined are probably less than the odds of becoming someone's bonnet mascot and sidescreen cars don't need an mot so that only leaves the problem of insurers wriggling out of a potential claim.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Drewmotty

[Cew]

I suppose that an auxiliary high level led brake light would be ok too as long as it is a complete compliant unit.

Meanwhile the odds of getting fined are probably less than the odds of becoming someone's bonnet mascot and sidescreen cars don't need an mot so that only leaves the problem of insurers wriggling out of a potential claim.

Unless they are declared as a "modification" ? Just a thought.

[Geko]

Darren

My nephew is a mot testing station inspector and told me that he had been told to fail led lights retro fitted to exsiting housings

 

 

Good luck to enforce that.

[Guest ntc]

They can and will even if it a light.

[RogerH]

Hi Folks,

here is a 2014 publication form the FBHVC regarding LED bulbs and our older cars. Scroll down to page 8

 

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=are+LED+bulbs+legal+on+classic+cars

 

and then click on

 

than - Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs

fbhvc.co.uk/members-pages/newsletter-archive/_file/165/fbhvc-news-4-14-rtf-rtf/

So how do so many newer cars now legally use LED and HID lamps I hear you ask? ... These LED bulbs are supplied by a specialist company, Classic Dynamo ...

 

It states that LED bulbs CAN be fitted to old cars - or have I read it wrong

 

Roger

[Geko]

 

 

It states that LED bulbs CAN be fitted to old cars - or have I read it wrong

 

Roger

 

 

Nooo lah, just that the "world" is phasing out of incandescent bulbs...except MOT UK

[monty]

If we have been sold something illegal I wonder if we can get our money back from these people who have plugged these led's in our magazine, amongst others!

[Paul Down]

Roger,

 

 

The table from your FBHVC pages you referenced:

Below is a brief listing of the cut off dates after which all lamps must have approval marks and that currently means using approved filament bulbs carrying that approval.

 

Front side lamps

1st January 1972

Rear side lamps

1st January 1974

Brake lamps

1st February 1974

Direction indicators

1st April 1986

Headlamps dip/main beam

1st April 1986

Front fog lamps

1st April 1986

Rear fog lamps

no cut-off date so always need approval marks

Reverse lamps

1st April 1986

Number plate lamps

1st April 1986

 

It would seem that most TRs are OK to fit LED bulbs apart from later TR6's and TR'7s. Except fog lamps.

Maybe main/dip headlamps could be a problem due to the beam characteristics being rather different to incandescent bulbs and their needing a special type of mounting and reflector.

 

I know that driving for 70 miles up to Scotland last weekend I felt very much safer having fitted Bobs rear light LED conversion than on previous visits.

 

Not sure what Neil is so adamant about?

Edited April 19, 2017 by Paul Down

[Alec Pringle]

Unfortunately the FBHVC article takes an unreasonably optimistic interpretation of the wording of the 1989 Vehicle Lighting Regulations, the kind of optimistic interpretation shared by proponents of aftermarket LED lighting.

 

This overlooks the fact that those responsible for drafting regulations tend to be as precise as they can manage in their use of language.

 

A wise man assumes that if the regs do not explicitly say that you can, then by implication you cannot.

 

The alternative view, a presumption that unless something is specifically forbidden then it is permitted, is rarely an approach shared either by those responsible for drafting the regulations or by those responsible for implementing and enforcing the regulations.

 

Caveat emptor . . . . . .

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Geko]

 

A wise man assumes that if the regs do not explicitly say that you can, then by implication you cannot.

 

The alternative view, a presumption that unless something is specifically forbidden then it is permitted, is rarely an approach shared either by those responsible for drafting the regulations or by those responsible for implementing and enforcing the regulations.

 

Caveat emptor . . . . . .

 

Cheers

 

Alec

 

Quite the contrary actually. 1st day of Law school: Nullum crimen, nulla poena sine lege

[Guest ntc]

 

 

 

Not sure what Neil is so adamant about? To be honest I am never quite sure what he means. Is a Neil decoder available?

 

You and PF know best I will post no more.

[RogerH]

Hi Alec,

When a law comes into being then it is usual to be enacted from then onwards, not retrospectively, unless clearly stated.

Take condenser boilers for instance (awful things). You can run your out of date conventional until it expires.

 

Many old cars use bulbs that are not 'E' marked but are of the basic design. This is allowable.

 

As for experts from the DVLA (not law makers) - are these the same experts that were lobbied to allow dazzling Range Rover headlights that glow BLUE at certain angle (another law that has had to be put on ice).

 

The FBHVC report is sensible but needs to be followed up to give a definitive answer.

TRAction is making money out of advertising of this technology but are not in support of it.

 

The law is a very confusing thing and needs to be expertly clarified by a legal expert.

 

Roger

[SuzanneH]

Lucky the CAA and FAA are clear about their R&Rs.

[stuart]

So just had a chat with my MOT Station that does all mine and they are quite happy to pass LED lamps as long as they are working and the correct colour, they will question HID lamps though as they should have wash and self level.

Stuart.