BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) Here's fun..... Peter W E&OE Cam degreeing - helpful guidance Peter W Edited March 25, 2017 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul J Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 Very good but a little surprised there was no reference or check to crankshaft end float. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted March 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 That is why I added E&OE to the post - It is a very useful guide, although not using all the engine building techniques I would have. Rear oil seal alignment being but one. Proof is that his engine runs. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 Proof is that his engine runs. Peter W Yes Pete, but will it run in 5 years or 10,000 miles ? So many basic errors that will cause that engine to be a poor performer and not water tight. Probably not his fault because I get the impression it's his first TR wet liner engine and nobodies "wet nursed" him through the must do's. Trouble is it's on youtube (it's been posted before here), and the unknowing will maybe follow his example and gain the TR engine an unwelcome and undeserved "unreliable" or difficult to rebuild reputation. Far better to follow the workshop manual (or even the Haynes) which will get all mechanics on the right track. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted March 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) Yes Pete, but will it run in 5 years or 10,000 miles ? So many basic errors that will cause that engine to be a poor performer and not water tight. Probably not his fault because I get the impression it's his first TR wet liner engine and nobodies "wet nursed" him through the must do's. Trouble is it's on youtube (it's been posted before here), and the unknowing will maybe follow his example and gain the TR engine an unwelcome and undeserved "unreliable" or difficult to rebuild reputation. Far better to follow the workshop manual (or even the Haynes) which will get all mechanics on the right track. Mick Richards +1 Peter W PS Is it not the issue that the internet is anarchic? Edited March 26, 2017 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) Perhaps a list of the most serious errors could be listed here for the unwary ?. I noticed that he didnt use an alignment tool for the rear seal installation, did not use sealant on the fo8 rings before he checked for liner protrusion (but glad he switched from the steel fo8 to the copper), did not use sealant on the few external block bolts that go into oilways. I question the use of oil vs assembly lube but probably not a big issue since he was not going to let that engine sit for a long time before starting it. I have always understood that you really need to pack the felt/sealant pieces into the rear main channels (bit the gasket kits dont give you enough). What else ? Overall I enjoyed watching his first attempt at a wet liner engine build and thought he did a good job with the production and presentation. Stan Edited March 27, 2017 by foster461 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 Perhaps a list of the most serious errors could be listed here for the unwary ?. I noticed that he didnt use an alignment tool for the rear seal installation, did not use sealant on the fo8 rings before he checked for liner protrusion (but glad he switched from the steel fo8 to the copper), did not use sealant on the few external block bolts that go into oilways. I question the use of oil vs assembly lube but probably not a big issue since he was not going to let that engine sit for a long time before starting it. I have always understood that you really need to pack the felt/sealant pieces into the rear main channels (bit the gasket kits dont give you enough). What else ? Overall I enjoyed watching his first attempt at a wet liner engine build and thought he did a good job with the production and presentation. Stan Agree Stan, I was thinking the same, would be good to have a practical interpretation of the work so others can avoid repeating what may not be considered best-practice by those in the know. ....... Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SteveB21 Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 You need one of these.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) Hi Stan, I posted a basic build list on one of the other threads and it will outline where some extra care and time needs spending as shown below. There's always extra work but this covers the main engine block for a standard road engine, this is what I've found that works...every time over 20 engines. 4 Cylinder TR build assuming major component Cylinder head, Crankshaft are supplied correctly machined with valves and springs fitted. Fit Camshaft bearing ..........................................2 hours. Ensure the bearing oil hole lines up with the oil holes in the block, DON'T bruise the bearing when fitting the retaining bolts. Check the camshaft spins freely and doesn't have stiff points. Drill Dynamo bracket bolts and wire lock............1 hours Bolts go through into the crankcase, if they are not wired they WILL loosen and cause oil leaks over time. Check engine studs and nuts condition and fit ..................................................2 hours Discard any studs or nuts with galled (torn) surfaces, clean with thinner if used studs, blow over threads both block and nut with WD40 and wipe dry. Fit the studs and cylinder head nuts dry unless replacing with quality studs where lubrication is recommended. Dressing engine interior Clean inside block waterjacket, especially around Figure of 8 gasket areas and number 4 liner seat where the draintap is. Make sure cylinder block stud threads are not sticking up, relieve if necessary . Fit Liners, Fit Figure of 8 gaskets selected dry (stone any burrs off the cut edges so they are flat) Bolt on cylinder head and torque to 105 lb ft using cleaned old head gasket if available. Take up the torque in 3 settings 40-80-105 obviously in the recommended torqueing sequence. after fit cylinder head-remove measure fit +record deck heights .......................4 hours Retain liners with large washers where they are "Siamesed" Torque down to about 40 lb ft (not critical). Measure liner heights all liners to be within 3 to 5 thou above block surface measured in 4 positions around each liner. Also along the block length ie 3.3.3.3 or 5.5.5.5 not acceptable to have 4.4.3.5 which will cause reduced clamp where the height is uneven. Mark on the liners their orientation in the block and direction and what the amount is above the block. Remove liners- to machine top of block .............1 hours It may be that the block and liner surface is even, (I've never seen it yet !) in which case machine the liners individually to achieve the liner height required with the FO8 gaskets selected. Refit "decked" liners and recheck .......................2 hours Using "Wellseal" or your choice of "non"setting goo onto the FO8 gaskets refit the liners on top and retorque at 105 lb ft with the old head gasket, recheck the liner heights are as you require them, retain the liners in place again with washers as before. Fit crankshaft main bearings ...............................1 hours Check bearings for burrs or uneven edges, ensure the cylinder block "cups " for the bearings are clean without burrs. Fit bearings with engine oil to be used.(oil because you are checking torques as you go and all my engines are used within a month anyway.) Fit crankshaft and check turning torques.............1 hours Torque up the crank in 3 different settings until correct torque achieved, Crank should spin by finger pressure only (that's 1/3 of a lb ft). Check and measure crank end float....................1 hours Use a DTI (clock) to measure end float and set the crank at WSM required figures with different thrust washers. Check the crank still spins freely. Fit pistons to conrods...........................................2 hours This assumes the conrods have been prechecked for straightness and roundness of the big end and the small end has been replaced and honed to fit. (piston rings prefitted) ....................................... 1 hour Fit piston rings, either stagger the gaps or don't...who cares ? ( I do, even though I know they'll move) as long as the piston ring gap when measured is a minimum of 15 thou I'm happy. Fit pistons and conrods to crank and torque up.(make sure the offset is fitted the correct way around), Use engine oil on the big end bearings and check the increased turning torque to the crank added as each piston goes in, varies with engine size and fit but all should be about the same increase as a multiple. and measure deck heights.........................................2 hours Standard road going engine with standard copper composite gasket aim for 10* (see below) thou deck height below the top of the liner. Remove Pistons strip from conrods for machining to deck height as above ...............................2 hours piston ring removal extra if required) Remove crankshaft ............................................1 hour Crankshaft,Pistons conrods front pulley and flywheel and clutch cover for balancing, pre prepared and ready. Refit items after machining Fit crankshaft and check turning torques.............) Now fit the sealing felts pushing them well down into the main cap machinings pre-soak them in Wellseal Check and measure crank end float....................)1 hours Fit rear crank scroll seal............................1 hours Use alignment tool to set scroll * Ensure the correct size is used, workshop manual dimensions are incorrect. Fit pistons to conrods................................2 hours Fit pistons and conrods to crank and measure and check deck heights.........................2 hours Fit head gasket and fit cylinder head....................2 hours Fit flywheel clutch and clutch cover......................2 hours Fit front crankshaft sprocket ............................half hours Fit front engine plate ........................................half hours Fit camshaft followers...........................................1 hours Fit camshaft and pushrods....................................1hours . Build and Fit Rockershaft......................................2 hours Build and fit oil pump.............................................1 hours Build and fit distributor drive and spindle...............1 hours Time camshaft setting distributor drive..................1 hours Using existing markings, if non available set by DTI allow another 1 hour Fit timing chain tensioner and timing cover...........1 hours Fit distributor setting at TDC..................................1 hours Fit engine sump.....................................................1 hours Fit Rocker cover................................................half hours * Original quoted as 40thou below liner height instead of surface of head. Revised to 10thou below liner height for clarity and understanding. Mick Richards Edited April 28, 2021 by Motorsport Mickey Mistake in referring to Liner top instead of head surface. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Thanks Mick.... very useful! ..... Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Britishbest Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Wow! Makes you realise there's a lot to consider. Good summary Mick thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Thanks for that, have copied, & pasted into .DOC, & saved for future reference. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Thanks Mick we're just starting a 3A Rebuild,if it goes Tits Up at least I've someone to blame. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Thanks Mick we're just starting a 3A Rebuild,if it goes Tits Up at least I've someone to blame. Walk towards the light Niall, all will be well. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) Walk towards the light Niall, all will be well. Mick Richards it'll be the 9.15 from Paddington in the Severn Tunnel Roger Edited March 29, 2017 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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