Graham Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 I've got a fairly average dual (gas/gasless) Mig welder which matches my less than average welding skills. But I have a large roll of gas less mig wire which I have been using to less than satisfactory results, I've since been told that gases MIG does not give great results , so question I have is can I go back to using gas and this wire or will I have to use 'gas less' mig wire Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) Graham your post is bit confusing. For gasless welding the wire has a flux core which in my experience tends to make it spatter even with anti spatter spray. For what it costs, I would buy a roll of the correct wire for welding with gas. FWIW the best gas is a CO2 : Argon mix. Rgds Ian Edited March 22, 2017 by Ian Vincent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted March 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Graham your post is bit confusing. For gasless welding the wire has a flux core which in my experience tends to make it spatter even with anti spatter spray. For what it costs, I would buy a roll of the correct wire for welding with gas. FWIW the best gas is a CO2 : Argon mix. Rgds Ian Ian OK thanks will get new wire along with new gas bottle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 FWIW get the higher percentage Argon mix (15%) as it works so much better. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ed_h Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Standard MIG mix in the US is C25: 75% Ar, 25% CO2. Ed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Standard MIG mix in the US is C25: 75% Ar, 25% CO2. Ed Thats what you would get over here for Ally welding. Standard for steel we get is only 5% Argon Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ed_h Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Thats what you would get over here for Ally welding. Standard for steel we get is only 5% Argon Stuart. Interesting. We normally use 100% Argon for alumin(i)um. I wonder why the difference? Ed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveN Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Easy ! the difference is in the (i) I'll get me coat! Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Interesting. for years I used plain Co2 out of old fire extinguishers, it worked ok, but splattery, & hard to get smooth results. last year I switched to Hobbyweld 5, which is 93% Argon, 5% Co2, 2% oxygen. It has transformed my welding, smooth welds are now easy to obtain, wish I had changed years ago. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ransomes256 Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 As already stated welding with gasless wire gives a lot of splatter and less than ideal results. Just to clarify what gases are readily available to us for hobby use. CO2 is OK for mild steel but is variable and can cause splatter and a less than stable arc. 5% Argon, 2% Oxygen, 97% CO2 ideal for thin mild steel sheet up to 7mm gives a smooth arc with minimal splatter. 15% Argon, 2% Oxygen, 87% CO2 good for steel 5mm to 18mm thick. (Not many of us restore tanks) Pure Argon used for Aluminium and Stainless steel but also suitable for steel. Normall used for TIG welding but OK for MIG. Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Interesting. for years I used plain Co2 out of old fire extinguishers, it worked ok, but splattery, & hard to get smooth results. last year I switched to Hobbyweld 5, which is 93% Argon, 5% Co2, 2% oxygen. It has transformed my welding, smooth welds are now easy to obtain, wish I had changed years ago. Bob. Other way round Bob, 5% Argon and the rest CO2 Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) the stuff BOC supplies here for standard MIG welding is Argoshield 54 - 1.5% O2 ; 7% Co2 ; 91.5% Argon. Works beaut once you get the flow rate right. Edited March 23, 2017 by littlejim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Other way round Bob, 5% Argon and the rest CO2 Stuart. Oh no it isn't https://www.hobbyweld.co.uk/products/ Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Oh yes it is - oops!! it's not Christmas yet. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 In Holland I am familiar with a mixture of 85%Ar and 15% CO2, and that is what I use for welding carbon steel. Rhe wire I use is per AWS A5.18 (ER70S-6) Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Why would the bottled gas have 2% oxygen when it is the gas shielding that is trying to screen against Oxygen Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 From Wilipedia: Oxygen is used in small amounts as an addition to other gases; typically as 2–5% addition to argon. It enhances arc stability and reduces the surface tension of the molten metal, increasing wetting of the solid metal. It is used for spray transfer welding of mild carbon steels, low alloy and stainless steels. Its presence increases the amount of slag. Argon-oxygen (Ar-O2) blends are often being replaced with argon-carbon dioxide ones. Argon-carbon dioxide-oxygen blends are also used. Oxygen causes oxidation of the weld, so it is not suitable for welding aluminium, magnesium, copper, and some exotic metals. Increased oxygen makes the shielding gas oxidize the electrode, which can lead to porosity in the deposit if the electrode does not contain sufficient deoxidizers. Excessive oxygen, especially when used in application for which it is not prescribed, can lead to brittleness in the heat affected zone. Argon-oxygen blends with 1–2% oxygen are used for austenitic stainless steel where argon-CO2 can not be used due to required low content of carbon in the weld; the weld has a tough oxide coating and may require cleaning. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Hi Bob, that is very interesting. It does suggest though that you need to be careful where and on what you use the gas with Oxygen in. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Roger. Since swapping from Co2 to this mix my welds have improved dramatically, as has the ease of setting up the welder for correct wire feed, current, gas flow etc. I have welded both thin & relatively thick mild steel using 0.6mm mild steel wire, & also medium thickness (1/16") stainless steel using stainless wire. all give good results with no noticeable oxde coating. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Hi Bob, my Clarke bottled gas doesn't have the Oxygen and it isn;t too easy to swap over. I have had a desire to buy a better welding machine. Either SIP or R-Tech - perhaps a TIG welder. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 You should buy a TIG welder, then you can weld all my aluminium parts for me They are very good, but are expensive, & take a bit of getting used to. Are you using the disposable bottles ? It would not be difficult to change your setup to take large Hobbyweld type bottles, just need a regulator - cheap from ebay - & some plumbling. Clark welders can work well. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Hobbyweld +1 Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve T Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 I used to use BOC but the bottle rental costs were horrendous so swapped to Hobbyweld. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pinky Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 If you phone boc you can ask them for a hobby deal it cost 50 pound a year rental for some reason they don't make it common knowledge you have to be careful not to use to much gas a year if you do they put you on trade rental and that is expensive pink Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve T Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 With Hobbyweld it's £60 rental ( not yearly ) up front and then you just pay for refills. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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