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CV jointed shafts , a question


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#1 stuart

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:59 PM

Got some of the CDD CV jointed drive shafts here for fitting, also some supplied by TRGB (apparently made by the same company.) When fitted and the brake assembled we have noticed that the brake drum sits 1/16" further out than with a standard hub/shaft setup, The ally hub and the hub flange are each 1/32" wider than original. As several other people have already got these fitted has anyone any comments on this anomaly as obviously the shoes will be riding on a different part of the drum?

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#2 SDerbyshire

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 05:03 PM

I have these fitted Stuart, but have to admit i did not notice this.

I did fit new back plates, brake shoes and wheel cylinders at the same time ( which isnt really an excuse.....)

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#3 potts4a

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 06:10 PM

I didn't notice either but the brakes seem to be working the same after 300/400 miles. One of our members has had the CDD ones fitted for over a year and has been to La Rochelle and back with no problems.
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#4 Motorsport Mickey

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 06:58 PM

Haven't done this on a TR myself but might be worth confirming the drum surface hasn't got a shoulder of any note worn in it and if it has a skim back to the drum circumference might be in order to ensure long brake shoe life and correct braking.

 

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#5 hman

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:01 PM

Wouldn't have thought a 1/16th would make much difference as long as the drums are resurfaced.

I don't suppose all back plates are true, there must be some margin for adjustment with an adjustable hammer spanner.

Just a thought. Coat on. Going to the pub. Cheers.


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#6 peejay4A

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:10 PM

No problems here. Make sure that the boot clips are stainless, not cable ties.
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#7 jean

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 09:45 AM

TR-Nord in Germany, ( Bruno Dwinger ) are also supplying the CV driveshafts and they got reasonable fitting instructions on their site In German language. As far as I could read it's not always straight fitting. 

As the shafts only work properly within certain limits you will have to carefully align and level the rear side of the car and measure several parameters on both sides.

In certain cases they advise to use the shims they supply. They don't mention what shims and where they have to be fitted.

Probably for the diff side and or the brake backplates.


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#8 stuart

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 10:15 AM

TR-Nord in Germany, ( Bruno Dwinger ) are also supplying the CV driveshafts and they got reasonable fitting instructions on their site In German language. As far as I could read it's not always straight fitting. 

As the shafts only work properly within certain limits you will have to carefully align and level the rear side of the car and measure several parameters on both sides.

In certain cases they advise to use the shims they supply. They don't mention what shims and where they have to be fitted.

Probably for the diff side and or the brake backplates.

The problem with the extra length cannot be corrected with shims as its the out side of the trailing arm distance that has the excess, the only way to properly correct it would be by machining and that entails stripping the hub. Im not overly impressed with them I must say.

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#9 potts4a

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 10:42 AM

I had new brake drums a couple of years ago so no wear ridges, but i guess if ones spending the best part of a grand on the shafts then while its in bits is a good time to fit new drums if required, about £40 a pair.The only checking required with the CDD ones was that if fitted with a tele conversion the drop when the wheel is hanging is not too much.
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#10 stuart

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 10:48 AM

I had new brake drums a couple of years ago so no wear ridges, but i guess if ones spending the best part of a grand on the shafts then while its in bits is a good time to fit new drums if required, about £40 a pair.The only checking required with the CDD ones was that if fitted with a tele conversion the drop when the wheel is hanging is not too much.
Chris

Most of the new drums Ive seen dont look very good either, not as well machined as original.

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#11 TriumphV8

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 12:43 PM

As nobody knows what happened to the frame and the rear levers

it must be established that the cv-shafts have the proper length.

This length can be expanded with the shims. 

As Stuart says the outside position of the hub is not affected by that.

 

The hub casings are made from aluminium and may tend to fail under

heavy driving conditions and bigger wheel offsets.

I destroyed three of seem in two different cars, so not a specific

car problem.

 

I remanufactured them from steel and that maybe a good chance

to correct the wrong outset of the wheel hub.

 

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Cheers

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#12 jean

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:06 AM

Chris, TR-Nord also mentions that the end of the trailling arm should in no way drop below the lowest part of the chassis member.

 

Stuart, as I have an old hub and and a pair of original drums in good condition I best measure and compare them with the CDD items before fitting them. 

As far as I understand from your mail the problem lies in the distance difference between the flange fitted to the backplate and the drum carrier.. :(

 

I did also read on a U.S. site that in certain cases the CV joint might touch the inner side of the arm at places  where casting residues are left over 


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#13 stuart

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:12 AM

Chris, TR-Nord also mentions that the end of the trailling arm should in no way drop below the lowest part of the chassis member.

 

Stuart, as I have an old hub and and a pair of original drums in good condition I best measure and compare them with the CDD items before fitting them. 

As far as I understand from your mail the problem lies in the distance difference between the flange fitted to the backplate and the drum carrier.. :(

 

I did also read on a U.S. site that in certain cases the CV joint might touch the inner side of the arm at places  where casting residues are left over 

Thats right Jean it makes the brake drum sit further out from the back plate (and obviously the shoes will be running in a different spot on the inside of the drum) There is minimal clearance inside the trailing arm casting where the shaft runs through though it seems enough but obviously any excess casting flashing may well interfere.

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#14 jean

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:27 AM

Stuart, thanks a lot for your response....... :) , now I know what do do before things go wrong.


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#15 potts4a

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:45 AM

One other point, when I asked CCD about things to check and why, I was told that some tele conversions have been fitted with shocks which were not specked for TR fitment resulting in the swinging arm dropping too low and the shaft actually touching the top of the chassis when the wheel was hanging down which could happen when taking a hump back bridge at speed.
Chris
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#16 RogerH

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:59 AM

Hi Chris,

                you can get the same effect if you fit longer rear springs in order to increase ground clearance.

 

There is not a lot of leeway around the drive shafts.

 

Roger


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#17 Nigel Triumph

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:27 PM

Hi Stuart,

 

What does the supplier say about the width of the hubs and fit of the brake drums? I would expect Alistair at CDD to be interested in your feedback.

 

 

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#18 jean

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:34 PM

Just measured the driveshaft hubs I recently received from CDD against the Original on my 6. :(..... difference exactly 1.5mm - 1/16 inches. 

In so far BAD news and GOOD news..... ;) Not in accordance to original size...... but not yet fitted.

 

Just wonder if it's possible to shave off 0.5mm from the hub and 0.5mm from the drum. The hubs could take some washers to increase the load surface 

I'm afraid that non pros who fitted the shafts did not notice the difference. Anyhow the Alfins on my 6 do not run in exactly the same position as the originals.  


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#19 stuart

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 04:53 PM

I did look at the drums, they arent that thick enough at that point to take it and if you have original Alfins like I have on my solid axle I wouldnt be altering them. The hub flange would take it as its thicker than normal but its the ally section needs a 1/32" off it too which means separating the outer hub from it, shouldnt really need to do this.

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#20 potts4a

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 08:04 PM

Stuart, as the shoes are narrower than the drum do you know where they would sit on a standard set up, i.e. Central, offset to the outside or offset to the inside.
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