RogerH Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi Folks, Today I did a silly thing - I tried to fit the surrey top steel roof. The last time I did this was in 1998 when the car was new on the road. The roof fitted like a hand in a bespoke Ashwood glove. This time, sadly, not all the bolt holes would line up. If I get the front in I can't get the back in If I get the back in I can't get the front in. Clearly over the last 18 + years the body has sagged slightly - we are talking of half a hole (5/32) on the top of the surrey top frame - so not a great deal but enough. I was tempted to use duct tape to hold it down. Or even Duck tape as that's better. Bit it would not be in keeping with the 4A's stylish lines. So my plan is to slacken off the back of the car and raise it ever so slightly. Would I be correct in thinking that the back is held down b the left and right body/chassis bolts rear of the rear wheels. AND the bolt through the boot floor and the cross tube. I appreciate that the door gaps will close up slightly but 5/32 at the top will be less than 5/32 at the top of the door. I think there is plenty of adjustment on the doors. Is there a glaring fault in my meticulous planning. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Easier to do, what about slackening off the rear backlight bolts in the rear deck and spacing it up from the front of the backlight (B Post area) tilting the backlight, would that get you enough movement ? Or spacing up the rear of the backlight ? I forgot 4As sag at the ends. Mick Richards Edited January 17, 2017 by Motorsport Mickey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi Mick, I had considered lifting the backlight itself. But in reality it hasn't moved over the years but the whole body has. if the backlight was raised would I be able to get a bigger seal (under its lower li) to keep it water proof. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Dunno, but I'd be tempted to see if I could get the movement required to fit the roof that way before worrying about obtaining a new seal for it. I estimate only a couple of hours work to try it and see what movement you get whereas the body movement is likely a lot more work. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi Mick, I shall have to mull it over. Choices, choices. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave I O W Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hj Roger, Before you do anything why not wait to hear what Stuart has to say, I'm sure he has come across this problem before! And we don't want you to lose anything Cheers Dave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robin Powell Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Yes do be careful Roger we don't want any thingys flying off again! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytr5 Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Undue the windscreen brackets either side and manoeuvre the lid in place, put bolts in, then tighten up windscreen brackets. Regards Harry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Undue the windscreen brackets either side and manoeuvre the lid in place, put bolts in, then tighten up windscreen brackets. Regards Harry. +1 and jacking the car in the middle will save some pushing/pulling on the screen frame Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi Harry/Stef, I'm reluctant to move the front screen as it fits the door glass as I want it. Looking at the door gaps it is more likely to be a slightly sagged body/chassis. Again I am taking about a few millimeter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Open the Doors and Jack it up both sides in the Middle,leave Overnight and see if you get any Movement. Take a Few Measurements before you Jack the Car up,when you have it Jacked up and also the Following Morning,hopefully you won't end up with a Bananna Shaped 4. Edited January 17, 2017 by TR NIALL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4ffic Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi Roger, Are you planning to get the steel roof section to fit and leave it in situ or do you want to take on and off regularly? If you believe the car has sagged (distance front to back between windscreen and back light is too small), I'm not sure what benefit loosening the body aft of the rear axle will give you. It's the middle that needs to come up... So, other than adding body/chassis mounting spacers across the mid section which seems a big job, I would have thought loosening all the bolts/nuts securing the back light to the rear deck - there may be some movement for the whole thing to move aft slightly - and lifting/jacking the car in the middle would allow you to get the roof bolts in. Nip up the bolts but not tight, then tighten the bolts/nuts around the back light, and finally tighten the roof bolts. I expect that whilst you hurtle along the highways and byways of Britain with just the surrey rag section in (or not as the case may be) that the measurement front to back between windscreen and back light varies by more than 5/32" anyway. All you need to do make it the right size whilst stationary and get the roof bolted in. Think of all that extra rigidity.!? On second thoughts, don't bother loosening anything off, just jack up the middle of the car and bolt the surrey in..! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi Folks, Correction - it is not sagging (low in the middle and high at the ends) it is Hogging (low at the ends and high in the middle) Sorry about that - I should know better being an ex-aerospace apprentice. 'Pop' Payne (apprentice instructor ) would be upset. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 I have a similar problem - I can fit any 3 of the 4 fasteners. I just propped the lid against the garage wall, and left it there. One less panel to restore! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi Folks, Correction - it is not sagging (low in the middle and high at the ends) it is Hogging (low at the ends and high in the middle) Sorry about that - I should know better being an ex-aerospace apprentice. 'Pop' Payne (apprentice instructor ) would be upset. Roger "Or spacing up the rear of the backlight ? I forgot 4As sag at the ends." Post 2 Dunno how much more of a clue I can give you ;lol Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi Mick, no more clues, I fully understand what you are saying. I'm just having trouble saying what I mean. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Have you tried crossed bolting e.g. 1st. Front/Right 2nd. Rear/Left 3rd. Front/Left 4th. Rear/Right Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi Stef, sort of. I can get any three bolts in. But not all four. As I mentioned it is apprx half a hole out - not much but enough. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 ...then last bold at the Front Left, 2 heavy weights on the passenger seat with the one on top doing the screwing... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi Roger, Did you compare the front to back spacing on the holes? These can easily vary 1/2" or so. What concerns me is something has changed - mine don't fight me any more after months removed than they do after a week. I've never had one which leapt adroitly into position ( 5 lids in total ). I'd do as Harry suggests, and hang the window glass fit until I got the lid to come to heel. Also, based on what you describe as " hogging " it suggests a round of shim adjustment between the chassis and rear body mounting points. This could pay double dividends; a roof which attaches and better shut lines around the doors. Cheers, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi Tom, The fore/aft attachment measurements of the car and roof are within 5mm or so - fairly equal both sides. After over 18 years something has definitely changed - but not much. I have - and quite a lot. I don;t want to touch the front screen as it is where I want it. Regarding the shims - that was going to be my plan. Loosen the three attachment area, raise body until it all lines up. I dont do shut lines - I have gaps The one on the right side is reminiscent of the African Rift valley. On a quite night you can hear wildebeast chewing the cud. But as you say, raising the back will help (I hope the animals get out of the way) Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willie Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 As a matter of interest, does an after-market fibreglass roof panel suffer the same issues? I am contemplating getting one when Moss have them back in stock! Willie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4A1965 Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Roger, you have probably done this but:-)......... A simple car jack in the centre of the car will move the front and back of a TR4A quite a lot. I was shocked with mine. There is a video here showing just how much movement and fun you can have with a jack on a TR4A chassis rail. Watch those doors move:-) It may just give you the room you need and when it all settles down with your roof on you'll have a stronger car:-) Best Paul. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 As a matter of interest, does an after-market fibreglass roof panel suffer the same issues? I am contemplating getting one when Moss have them back in stock! Willie They do but the problem is chassis flex/windscreen rake adjustment, not the roof panel itself. You can order directly from http://honeybournemouldings.co.uk/triumph.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi Paul, yes indeed, I've experienced the moving gaps over the years.. I need to lift the back on mine. I can't see a problem at the moment but things change so quickly Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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