Steering improvements

[qim]

Hi

 

I am going to dismantle the car in January to get rid of any rust in the chassis,

 

I would like to improve the steering while I am at it. What could I do?

 

Thanks

 

qim

[rhino_mac]

Bicep curls and tricep dips!!

[Lebro]

Fit late TR4 3° castor trunnions, & Late TR4 onwards upper wishbones

Fit Revingtons "Steering geometry" kit

Fit Revingtons (or Bastuck) adjustable upper fulcrum kit, & set to a small amount of -ve camber

Fit Revingtons sprung steering box peg kit.

& of course make sure all bushes, springs, & shockers are OK. Polybushes are best IMO

 

Bob.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Lebro

[qim]

Hi Bob

 

I was thinking more in terms of improvement without changing the original too much.

 

Does your solution make big visual changes?

 

Thanks

 

qim

[EdwinTiben]

Hi,

 

The spring steering box peg kit is not visible. Its an improvement allthough a little.

Poly bushes is a good one, fitting track control pin from phosphorus bronze with a stainless steel pin adds a little more.

 

And not too wide tyres. I use the original size on my tr2 , Well almost original 155 r15 vredestein classics. In driving this would be the most noticable improvement. Slow driving the first improvements are somewhat noticable.

[Kutscher]

Hi,

 

I use the original 550 X 15 diagonal tyres, it feels you have power-steering. It's a really good improvement.

 

 

Robin

Edited October 27, 2016 by Kutscher

[qim]

What would you recommend from this page, that would not mean introducing parts that do not "look" from a TR3A, please?

 

From above I accept that the poly bushes (in the list below?) and the peg kit (is it in the list below?) are musts.

 

http://www.revingtontr.com/suspension-steering/steering/tr2-3b-worm-and-peg-steering-box-system/tab1

 

would the following be of any use, and what is that use?

 

TOP PLATE STEERING BOX TR2-3B LHD

TRACK CONTROL PIN KIT 2 X 105063U BUSH PB

IDLER BUSHED ASSY TR2-3B

BUSH KIT SPLIT COLUMN TR3-3B

 

I understand that I could change the steering to a rack&pinion from a TR4, but I don't want to go that way.

 

Thanks

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Best improvement I had was the redesigned steering levers from Revington (bent outwards by about an inch to improve Ackerman angle)

That took away the 'jump' of the steering wheel when you hit a bump whether going straight or turning. I removed my disc dust shields so there is a visual impact, from beneath the car only. On other cars we cut a round hole in the disc shields to accomodate the track rod ends as near the disc as possible - Not visible to the unitiated.

 

Phoshor bronze or Delrin steering relay bushes to replace 'silent bloc and pin' will lighten the steering and give a small amount of more 'feel' - Not visible to the unitiated.

 

Phosphor bronze bushed steering idler gives slightly lighter steering - Not visible to the unitiated.

 

3 degree castor will improve self centring. - Not visible to the unitiated.

 

Revington top wishbone kit with up to 3 degrees negative negative camber will improve cornering and is designed to work with the reshaped steering levers. - Not visible to the unitiated.

 

In truth all these mods are worth doing and will be noted as improvements when you drive if fitted correctly.

 

Anyone looking at the car like a mechanic who has no real knowledge of TRs is unlikely to identify the modifications.

 

Cheers

Peter W

[Lebro]

Hi Bob

 

I was thinking more in terms of improvement without changing the original too much.

 

Does your solution make big visual changes?

 

Thanks

 

qim

Only visual change is the change in camber - you can set this to whatever you want. In my opinion the original +ve camber looks odd, & was suited to cross ply tyres, which most of us no longer use.

By the way I forgot a couple of mods - changing the rubber bushed pins at the ends of the centre track rod to either plastic (PTFE?) or steel. (I used plastic) and of course fitting of an anti roll bar.

 

The setting up of the adjustable upper fulcrum is very fiddly, & time consuming, the other mods are fairly straight forward - especially since you are stripping the suspension anyway.

 

Bob.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

What would you recommend from this page, that would not mean introducing parts that do not "look" from a TR3A, please?

 

From above I accept that the poly bushes (in the list below?) and the peg kit (is it in the list below?) are musts.

 

http://www.revingtontr.com/suspension-steering/steering/tr2-3b-worm-and-peg-steering-box-system/tab1

 

would the following be of any use, and what is that use?

 

TOP PLATE STEERING BOX TR2-3B LHD

TRACK CONTROL PIN KIT 2 X 105063U BUSH PB

IDLER BUSHED ASSY TR2-3B

BUSH KIT SPLIT COLUMN TR3-3B

 

I understand that I could change the steering to a rack&pinion from a TR4, but I don't want to go that way.

 

Thanks

You missed what is for me the best of the improvements.

http://www.revingtontr.com/product/rtr3314k/name/steering-geometery-imp-kit-tr2-3b

 

I drove a steering rack car many moons ago and liked the light steering but hated the fact the centre horn push and indicator control was replaced with modern stalks. If you want a steering rack steered car with stalks to control the indicators buy a..... TR7.

 

Peter W

[qim]

Thanks Peter

 

STEERING GEOMETRY IMP. KIT TR2-3B

 

I looked at that but the description suggests visible modifications.

 

 

 

This kit consists of a pair of new steering arms, a pair of longer steering tie rods and the various fittings and fitting instructions needed to complete the job. The kit corrects negative Ackerman angle.

 

Edited October 27, 2016 by qim

[qim]

I am not a mechanic and am trying to understand what I could ask my mechanic to do, knowing what I am getting involved in...

 

Of the following, which involve the steering box only, i.e. are parts that go inside the box? Otherwise, where do they go?

 

EDIT

 

being lazy... I saw the images

 

TOP PLATE STEERING BOX TR2-3B LHD - Ok this is the top of the existing box

TRACK CONTROL PIN KIT 2 X 105063U BUSH PB - Does this go INSIDE the steering box?

IDLER BUSHED ASSY TR2-3B - how different is this assembly from the existing one?

 

 

Thanks

 

qim

Edited October 27, 2016 by qim

[Motorsport Mickey]

I think you are focusing too much upon what you think may be unacceptable because the change is visible to an on looker, yet you drive a car which has been converted to LHD ?

Yes I realise that LHD was a factory option but so would have been all the improvements itemised above for you above by Peter W if the factory was building these cars now. Nearly all of his suggestions are invisible to any onlooker and would only be found with intense scrutiny by a mechanic.

 

Mick Richards

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

I am not a mechanic and am trying to understand what I could ask my mechanic to do, knowing what I am getting involved in...

 

Of the following, which involve the steering box only, i.e. are parts that go inside the box? Otherwise, where do they go?

 

EDIT

 

being lazy... I saw the images

 

TOP PLATE STEERING BOX TR2-3B LHD - Ok this is the top of the existing box

 

TRACK CONTROL PIN KIT 2 X 105063U BUSH PB - Does this go INSIDE the steering box? -- No this item fits one at each end of the middle steering cross bar and connects to the idler one side and the steering box the other.

 

IDLER BUSHED ASSY TR2-3B - how different is this assembly from the existing one? -- It contains bushes, that are replaceable when wear happens, for bearings rather than metal to metal contact. Repair of the original type of idler is complete replacement. The screw thread that retains the pin is removed and replaced by a lock nut that enables adjustment to end float if wear happens

 

Peter W

 

 

Thanks

 

qim

[Lebro]

Thanks Peter

 

STEERING GEOMETRY IMP. KIT TR2-3B

 

I looked at that but the description suggests visible modifications.

 

 

 

Not really noticeable, only an expert would spot it, & then only if he had a good hard look underneath.

Would strongly recomend.

 

Bob.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Not really noticeable, only an expert would spot it, & then only if he had a good hard look underneath.

Would strongly recomend.

 

Bob.

+1 Paint everything black and no one, except the absolute experts, will notice.

Peter W

You will notice the improved stability.

[qim]

So, if I understood well. there is nothing that can be changed INSIDE the steering box. The only thing would be a different TOP plate.

 

Also, while the car is dismantled the only thing that might important to do is to replace the BUSH KIT SPLIT COLUMN TR3-3B in the column-

 

All other things could be done easily working underneath after the car after it has has been reassembled . This is not to say that I will not take the opportunity to them earlier. I am just trying to visualize the work to be done.

 

But if for some reason I wanted to do a few things at a time, what would be the next important?

 

The attachment may not be from a TR3A but could you tell me where the TRACK CONTROL PIN KIT 2 X 105063U BUSH PB would be located?

 

or on the other attachment what are the parts mentioned in the thread

 

 

TRACK CONTROL PIN KIT 2 X 105063U BUSH PB

IDLER BUSHED ASSY TR2-3B

BUSH KIT SPLIT COLUMN TR3-3B

 

 

 

Thanks

 

qim

Edited October 27, 2016 by qim

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

So, if I understood well. there is nothing that can be changed INSIDE the steering box. The only thing would be a different TOP plate.

 

CORRECT

 

Also, while the car is dismantled the only thing that might important to do is to replace the BUSH KIT SPLIT COLUMN TR3-3B in the column-

 

Only do this if you are rebuilding the steering box or the steering shaft is wobbling in the steering casing - In which case you should rebuild the steering box and shafts.

 

All other things could be done easily working underneath after the car after it has has been reassembled . This is not to say that I will not take the opportunity to them earlier. I am just trying to visualize the work to be done.

 

But if for some reason I wanted to do a few things at a time, what would be the next important?

 

Rebuild the suspension completely using Poly bushes on the top wishbones. You may also need new trunions/ball joints/vertical posts/springs/dampers. Fit the reshaped steering levers at this time. Think about wheel bearings too

 

The attachment may not be from a TR3A but could you tell me where the TRACK CONTROL PIN KIT 2 X 105063U BUSH PB would be located?

 

or on this page

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29140

 

ITEM 60 on both sides Fit when you do the steering box, column and idler assy. Do steering box now with the body off , with the body you must remove the front apron assy (and risk ruining the paintwork).

 

Peter W

 

Thanks

 

qim

[qim]

Hi Peter

 

Thanks. Got item 60. What about the others? See Edit in my last post.

 

Sorry....

Edited October 27, 2016 by qim

[jean]

My TR3A front suspension is modified to late TR4A specs incl. the Revington adjustable fulcrum pins, plus Revington Rack and Pinion

Tyres are Vredestein Classics 165x15 on 70 spoke centrelaced WW.

 

In general the difference is quite acceptable isn't it.... but I'm not an originality freak, more the opposite...

[qim]

but I'm not an originality freak, more the opposite...

Hi

 

I understand, but in my case I tis more the feeling of driving an old car, just as it was (with minor adjustments).

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Hi Peter

 

Thanks. Got item 60. What about the others? See Edit in my last post.

 

Sorry....

That will depend on the condition of the ones on your car. Renew as required.

The top ball joint (200772) item 13 http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/steering-suspension/front-suspension may be required BUT if you choose to change the castor angle to TR4 3 degree type (better self centring at speed) you will need top wishbones, ball joint and trunions from page items 20-28 plus trunion item 95 to suit .

Consider also a front anti roll bar for your car.

 

These modifications help with comfort and safety but do not completely remove the historic feel of a Sidescreen TR

 

Peter W

[qim]

Hi Peter

 

The car has a front anti-roll bar, and all the suspension is fine.

 

I'm just concerned at this time with the steering. There has been great help in this thread but I am still a bit lost not knowing what is what, and what it is for....

 

Take this

 

IDLER BUSHED ASSY TR2-3B

 

I got a picture of it and just need confirmation of what it is in the attachments I posted before

 

 

Where does that go and what does it replace in the photo with arrows?

Edited October 27, 2016 by qim

[Lebro]

Nothing in your photo, it goes on the other side of the car, where the steering box would be on a RHD car.

Item 67 in your blown up parts diagram

 

Bob.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Lebro

[qim]

Hi Bob

 

So, you take out the existing 67 and fit the new one on the right from Revington. The description of this part in the diagram is : BRACKET, idler lever housing

 

 

What's the difference and advantage?

 

I assume that they are identical in form but of different construction. Is that it?

 

Thanks

 

qim

 

EDIT

 

I've been reading on this Ackerman's problem and can't really see the issue. When I was young and innocent I drove this car like mad and for me cornering at speed meant sliding the back on purpose. I don't do it any more because I drive slower, but if this is what Revingtons "Steering geometry" kit is supposed to cure, then I prefer it as it is.

Edited October 27, 2016 by qim