Nigel Triumph Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 There have been some interesting comments about different paint types on the recent thread here: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/59802-full-specification-for-the-paint-shop/ I'm planning to get the bodywork of my GT6 tidied up and resprayed over the winter. Normally I would ask for 2-pack but comments above about basecoat plus clear lacquer set me wondering. The bodyshop to whom I will entrust the job is recommending base plus clear as it is more fade resistant. The car will be painted its original Triumph Pimento and reds are of course notorious for fading. Could the sage ones here please comment... What are the pros and cons of 2-pack versus basecoat plus clear? Thanks in advance for your wisdom. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SeanF Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 I thought that base coat and clear was also 2 pack? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel Triumph Posted October 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 Not so. 2-pack is a paint that's mixed with (hazardous) isocyanate hardener immediately before spraying. It then cures to produce a tough finish, supposedly tougher than cellulose. 2-pack is available as primer and topcoat. The topcoat is exposed directly to the elements. Basecoat plus clear is a coloured basecoat (often water-based these days) which is followed by application of a clear lacquer to - allegedly - protect the colour coat. It's the way mass-produced cars are finished in the factory. But which is best to refinish a classic??? Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Boyd Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 In my honest opinion a water based 'colour' coat followed by 2k clear coat is the best finish you can get. Is it period??? No. Will it give the best protection and stop the terrible colour fade?? Yes. Just my personal opinion of course. Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 I have just had all 4 wheel arches treated & then sprayed to match the wings in 2 pack. My body shop man has done a superb job of matching it all up & swears by 2 pack rather than any water based product. For what it's worth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 Despite snotty coments regarding 2 pack, its an excellent paint if applied correctly, celly doesn't stand a chance. Matching after an accident is also quite simple, to a proper paint person. There are some people who would still prefer lead loading to the latest body fillers, unbelievable I know, but after spending this week in my local body shop, nostalgia and its old products still remain in the memory of those who shall not be moved, and will never change. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SeanF Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Not so. 2-pack is a paint that's mixed with (hazardous) isocyanate hardener immediately before spraying. It then cures to produce a tough finish, supposedly tougher than cellulose. 2-pack is available as primer and topcoat. The topcoat is exposed directly to the elements. Basecoat plus clear is a coloured basecoat (often water-based these days) which is followed by application of a clear lacquer to - allegedly - protect the colour coat. It's the way mass-produced cars are finished in the factory. Nigel, Sorry I wasn't clearer in my question. I understand that base coat can be water based or other non 2 pack, but I thought that clear coat is always 2 pack - ie mixed with an isocyanate hardener? Thanks, Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel Triumph Posted October 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Nigel, Sorry I wasn't clearer in my question. I understand that base coat can be water based or other non 2 pack, but I thought that clear coat is always 2 pack - ie mixed with an isocyanate hardener? Thanks, Sean Hi Sean, Thank you for your comments. AFAIK professionally applied base plus clear usually has a 2-pack final clear lacquer. Of course with a conventional 2-pack finish, the primer and topcoat are both 2-pack without the final lacquer coat. In my honest opinion a water based 'colour' coat followed by 2k clear coat is the best finish you can get. Is it period??? No. Will it give the best protection and stop the terrible colour fade?? Yes. Just my personal opinion of course. Tom I'm not too bothered about period correct. I'm looking for a finish that will last and remain smart on a car that's used regularly. Stopping the colour fade would be a big bonus for me. The poor old GT6 is currently about 4 different shades of red and the bonnet has faded to a tangerine hue! Despite snotty coments regarding 2 pack, its an excellent paint if applied correctly, celly doesn't stand a chance. Matching after an accident is also quite simple, to a proper paint person. There are some people who would still prefer lead loading to the latest body fillers, unbelievable I know, but after spending this week in my local body shop, nostalgia and its old products still remain in the memory of those who shall not be moved, and will never change. I've no prejudice against 2-pack paint per se. My TR6 and Scimitar are both finished conventionally with 2-pack and no clear coat. They look great and the finish seems durable enough. But they are white, not prone to the fading problems of a red car, which is why I'm considering base plus clear for the GT6. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rog1 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Hi Pete, I guess it will be an easy fix to match the paint, if you have an accident with the un-strengthened chassis? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pinky Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Car painting is one of the most misunderstood professions I have come across No two painters will tackle a job the same I have spent the last 2 years learning how to do it My thoughts for what there worth,not read In a book,or what I have heard but what I have done as an amerture Lead loading or welding on corners and edging of doors Car body filler on bare metal panels etc Best protection epoxy primer, non porous exstremly hard wearing good for wheels and body structure 2k primer, high build, 4 to 1 mix, porous but exstremly good air fed mask required Top coat celly, very forgiving easy to paint and flick fades easy 2k top coat, lovely finish,looks good, very hard wearing cuts really nice Base coat, (thiners) laquared finish, can be a long process easy to cut back to base on corners Water base coat never used it, however not prefered by diy painters can cause biteing/ paint reaction Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 I have found that paint professionals are governed by more legislation over the last few years so they probably unable to treat some cars in the preferred way. That needs to be taken into account. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel Triumph Posted October 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Thank you to all who have responded. Given the problem of reds fading, I'm going to go with base coat plus clear, in the car's original Triumph Pimento. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Im saying nothing! :lol: :lol: Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Boyd Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Great choice Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greasemonkey Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 There are some people who would still prefer lead loading to the latest body fillers, unbelievable I know, but after spending this week in my local body shop, nostalgia and its old products still remain in the memory of those who shall not be moved, and will never change. So, is it possible to build up an edge on a panel, say to get the gap spot on, with "latest body fillers" as can be done with lead loading. If so will it be strong enough to last 20 years plus? Phil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
len1 Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 So, is it possible to build up an edge on a panel, say to get the gap spot on, with "latest body fillers" as can be done with lead loading. If so will it be strong enough to last 20 years plus? Phil. interesting question as i have lead loaded the edges of my wings to get accurate gaps, .....i cant imagine body filler would work for this purpose as its fairly soft on edges and could break off easily....lead on the edges is very strong.....i did try to knock it off the edge and it didnt all off ! I am only an amateur at bodywork. Len Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Lead on the edge of panels is VERY strong (not far off as strong as the parent metal) as long as it's been put on correctly with BOTH sides tinned up to the edge before it was added to. Stuarts the man to answer this. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Boyd Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Personally I get the gaps spot on by welding the wing edge until it's uniform, then lead the area to 'seal' it in and make it strong. Then when prepping for final finish before primers I have the doors on the catches with seals on and skin coat with filler. Always making sure the leading edges are lead and not filler. Worked well the 20 odd years I have been doing it Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Never ever fill to or over an edge. Anyone who has seen me doing my lead filling demos will know I belt the leaded edge with a hammer after t show how strong it is. Even if it does bend (As a steel edge will) then it can be panel beaten back the same as a normal steel edge. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 So, is it possible to build up an edge on a panel, say to get the gap spot on, with "latest body fillers" as can be done with lead loading. If so will it be strong enough to last 20 years plus? Phil. obviously Lead will be stronger in the application you mention. but for ordinary smoothing purposes Bondo rules, Jaguar used it on the short run of old classics they remanufactured. as for getting the gaps right a spot of welding here and there works a treat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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