Coolant additives

[Ewald]

I am wondering what experience others have using coolant additives in the tr3&tr4. I have come across Evans and Water wetter.

My TR3B runs hotter than I'd like on normal usage (mid/high 90s with 20 degrees outside temp) and often the electric fan will kick and run prolonged during driving.

 

I am also considering as part of a performance upgrade to fit an Uprated (6 fanned) water pump and an oil cooler, more about that in another thread, but I thought I'd mention it in case anyone has specific experience with coolant additives in a increased performance setup.

 

Thanks

Ewald

[RobH]

If you do a search on the subject Ewald, you will find lots of previous discussions on this. The opinions are generally sharply divided on whether waterless is a con or a benefit.

[Motorsport Mickey]

Ewald,

 

If you look on the "signatures" given by many posters they tell you where they are situated, give us a clue are you in Poland, Italy, Germany, Spain, Turkey the USA or elsewhere. Makes the judgement upon how hot your car is running much less subjective.

 

Before thinking cooling additives have you got a "sealed" airflow system into the front of the radiator ? For example the TR3a needs a complete cardboard (or alloy if you want to make one) radiator surround (including above it) to make sure the incoming air is forced through the radiator, if there is a gap of even 12mm to the sides or on the top the air will rush through it quicker than a wombat up a drainpipe ! This means the radiator doesn't get the cooling air it needs and can't remove the heat well enough, so it runs at the top of the temperature guage or overheats.

 

Also have you got the mechanical fan in place behind the radiator ? if not have you an electric fan in front of the radiator or behind the radiator ? If running an electric fan it's most important that the fan makes the air pass through the radiator from the outside into the engine compartment NOT the other way around or the radiator doesn't get the cooling air it needs (the air from inside the engine compartment is too hot) and it will overheat, are you beginning to see the light here ?

 

Also if you have an electric fan fitted in front of the radiator and even if it's pushing the air the correct way INTO the engine compartment the fan blades are further than about 5mm away from the radiator the airflow from it will collide with the radiator tubes or vanes (almost half of the radiator gaps are filled with these) and allow the airflow to "stall" reducing the speed of it and meaning the engine will overheat. If it's too far away reset the gap to be no more than 5mm away.

 

If the electric fan is turning the wrong way and trying to suck the air out of the engine compartment reverse the electrical feed to the fan which will turn the motor the other way.

 

I hope this information is useful and I'm not trying to teach you how to do things you've checked already but we've got to start somewhere.

 

Mick Richards

[Don H.]

If you do a search on the subject Ewald, you will find lots of previous discussions on this. The opinions are generally sharply divided on whether waterless is a con or a benefit.

 

I've weighed in on some of those threads, and definitely have an opinion. One thing for sure -- waterless coolants will NOT help your TR3B run cooler, Ewald.

 

If your car is running hot at low speeds, as in stop-and-go-driving, an oil cooler won't do anything. That would be a better solution for sustained high speed driving.

 

My car has a multi-vane water pump (there are five- and six-vane versions out there). It's no better than the original four-vaned pump set with proper impeller-to-housing clearances.

 

I've tried Water Wetter. It really did seem to help temperatures drop a few degrees, to my surprise.

 

There are dozens of threads here on the forum about managing temperatures on TR3A/B cars -- take some time to wander through those and you'll come up with lots of ideas.

[stuart]

It may also help you to decide what to do by reading the pinned topic at the top of the technical forum referencing over heating on 4 cylinder engines too.

Stuart.

Edited October 1, 2016 by stuart

[Peter Cobbold]

Ewald,

Waterless will reduce engine cooling, and would probably reduce the gauge temperature reading. But the cylinder head will run hotter, along with the oil, pistons ,valves etc. That's how waterless claims to improve mpg: it traps heat in the cylinder gead. And it is a fire risk. I would avoid it.

 

My first thought was back-flush the radiator.

 

Peter

[RogerH]

Here is the pinned topic Stuart mentioned http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/58689-4-cylinder-hot-engine-causesanswers/

 

Roger

[Ian Vincent]

At the risk of speaking too soon .... I have a 3a with 87 mm pistons, a Phoenix manifold and HS6 carbs on a 4a manifold so it isn't far off a TR3b.

I did have a so called high capacity water pump but was suspicious of its performance and replaced it with a properly set up 4 bladed pump making sure that I have the correct clearance behind the impeller and the correct clearance to the pump housing. I also have a re-cored rad without the crank hole through it. I have a pusher Kenlowe tight up against the front face of the rad and a close fitting shroud around the rad. I have the bypass blocked off with a coin with hole drilled through it.

It all works perfectly. The engine warms up quickly and stabilises at the mid point of the temp gauge. In traffic after about 5 mins the gauge starts to climb and the electric fan cuts in to drop the temperature instantly before the fan cuts out.

My suggestion would be to try and emulate the set up I have described which is really just a summary of all the advice I read on this forum when I was sorting my car.

Rgds Ian

 

PS I should have added that I have a narrow belt conversion and alternator with no mechanical fan.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Ian Vincent

[RogerH]

The four blade pump impeller should work very well if set up properly. There have/is some where the space behind the blades is too great and so water escapes around the back.

 

Not all six blade impeller's are the same. Some cause cavitation because they are too energetic in moving the water.

There is one design though that works very well.

 

Roger

[Ewald]

Thanks for all the input everyone.

I know it's a hot topic (pun intended) so I have been soaking up all the know-how from the overheating topics. My intention for this topic was purely on additives.

 

Evans is definitely off then, thanks Peter and Don, will probably try water wetter at some point. Any other experience remains of interest.

 

Mick, 20 degrees is the same in Turkey as in Poland , I have added my location (Switzerland) my profile now. Thanks for the tip. All your other points have been thoroughly ruled out.

 

Don, Ian and Roger thanks for the comments on the water pump. That is good input, I will dismantle and inspect my water pump before deciding whether to upgrade it.

Ian, What is a "re-cored rad with out the crank hole through it"

 

For those interested, I have worked my way down the checklist and I am very confident my car is good on almost all points on the thread. Radiator, ducting, electric fan, all hoses ok, etc etc.

Only things outstanding are cam timing and the thermostat. The thing that makes me suspicious of the thermostat is that I cannot seem to "predict" what temperature the car will be at. Sometimes it will be hotter/cooler in similar conditions.

 

Thanks again

E

[RogerH]

Hi Ewald,

the early radiators had a hole through the core for the starting handle. This removes three or four vertical rows of potential cooling.

 

If you get the core replaced have one with no starter handle hole. This will increase the cooling area.

 

Roger

[Don H.]

...and "replacing the core" means putting new tubes and heat-exchanging fins between the top and bottom tanks. It's common to do this to restore old radiators. (It's what I have on my TR3B, and I like it better than the aluminum radiator I had for short period of time -- seems to work better.)

[Ewald]

Thanks for clarifying.

I have a newer radiator. Painted back, I presume it is aluminum. All ducting is fitted and seals around, except for at the bottom of the "mouth", there is a 1-2 cm gap between the end of the metal plate and the radiator. The radiator extends another 10 cm down below this point so haven't worried about it to much.

[Peter Cobbold]

Ewald, Erratic gauge readings - have you calibrated the temperature sender and gauge against a good thermometer? Peter

[Lebro]

My temperature gauge started to behave oddly a while ago, it would not settle at one temperature, but seemed to bounce between 165, & 195 °.

Also had a slight water loss. Tried changing thermostat, made no difference. Turned out to be a slight head gasket leak, cured by re-torqueing the head down. (FRE engine not touched since installation circa 1968) That made all the difference. gauge now reading normally, water loss stopped.

After torqueing down, the rocker clearances went -ve ! so the head definitely moved down.

 

Bob.