Ernest Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 HI all I took TR for a run out earlier today - 30 miles with car running really nicely. Stopped for fuel and then found that car would not re-start. Nothing obviously wrong - engine turning over - after letting the car 'cool' down for 45 mins it then started fine and ran well the rest of way home. I am thinking that this starting problem was caused by some heat-induced vacumn related to fuel supply? I have owned the car for nearly 2 years and, although not used much, I have never encountered this problem. I did have a Petronix ingnition unit put in earlier this year, but can't see how this would have contributed to the starting problem. Any ideas on what the problem might have been and how to overcome this in future would be welcome. Best Wishes Ernest Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Hi Ernest, could be heat related - coils and dizzy capacitors can get hotter when stationary as there is no airflow to knock a few degrees off. You could move the coil to the wheel arch etc replace the capacitor with one of Martin Jay's (The Dizzy Doc). Could be fuel vapourisation - fit a heat shield or simply pop the bonnet when parked up for short periods. What colour are the plugs after a good run. If one pair are rich and the other pair OK then it could be the butterfly spindle worn causing problems - one carb is over rich the other OK - could make starting interesting. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dpb Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 I've had two of the things Roger mentions above (albeit both on a Herald). Rubbish capacitors (which eventually led to putting in electronic ignition), and a definite fuel vaporisation problem over many years. Never really cured that one. Dave ==== Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 What car Ernest? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Could have been a dose of water in the fill. Letting the engine cool could have allowed the water to coalesce and settle away from the petrol pipe intake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ernest Posted August 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Hi It's a 4a Pete Thanks....... dpd, littlejim, and especially RogerH for the useful advice. Best Wishes Ernest Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tthomson Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Hi Ernest, It could be heat related. The mechanical fuel pump on the 4A is directly connected to the block. When the car has been run for a while and then parked for a few minutes, it can lead to vapourisation of fuel in the pump, or associated pipes. SImilarly, the fuel feed pipe from the pump to the carbs can get hot under these conditions since it is directly above the exhaust manifold. I hope you manage to sort it out TT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ernest Posted August 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Thanks TT....... I think RogerH's advice re. heat shield suggests that perhaps I could do something about the proximity of fuel pump to block. I think I am going to enjoy the challenge of sorting out this relatively minor problem. Best Wishes Ernest Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Thousands of 4As have run for many years with the fuel pump attached to the block. Whatever's wrong, it isn't Triumph's design, or they'd all do that, all the time. Was it running unusually hot before you stopped? How long were you stopped before you tried to restart? Is it on Strombergs or SUs? My money would be on the condenser. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeF Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 When the problem is either fuel or electric its more likely to be electric. IF so then the symptoms point to coil or capacitor. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Many TR4 and TR4A (and to a lesser extent TR5 and TR6) owners have this problem. Usually it's heat build-up and the simple cure is to pop the bonnet for a minute or two to let the hot air out. It always worked for me with a TR4A but never a problem with sidescreen cars. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 It's never a problem with Eric (4A) but I do have a carburettor heat shield. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ernest Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Thanks for these addtional comments Pete My 4A runs on SUs and this problem has never happened before even though I haveundertaken trips, with breaks, of up to 100 miles and these in hotter weather than I experienced last week. I am now thinking perhaps coil, capacitor, or condenser. Not sure what each of these do but they seem to be a relatively cheap 'fix'. Thanks again Ernest Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Capacitor is another name for the condenser. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D Murton Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 If you still have the Petronix ignition fitted I think this does away with the capacitor. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tthomson Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 Hi Ernest, Fix any problem with electrics first. If the problem persists then you know it will be a fuel related problem. Electrics are normally easier to sort out and generally cheaper to deal with. Let us know what fixes the problem. TT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 FWIW I had a Pertronix fitted and after a short while it started to fail when the engine got up to normal running temperature and was stationary for any length of time. After being allowed to cool down it started and ran OK and was fine while on the move until I stopped again - so some sort of heat-soak problem. If you have eliminated fuel vapourisation, don't assume that because your ignition unit is new it is not faulty - try going back to ordinary points and see if the problem is solved. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ernest Posted August 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2016 Thanks all for helpful advice.....I now have a number of lines to follow-up. I am dissappointed to read that it might be the Pertronix that is casuing the problem. Not least, as it was recommeded by a very well-known TR specialst and a well-repected race-car tuning company. Regards Ernest Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted August 14, 2016 Report Share Posted August 14, 2016 Ernest, I've had the same Pertronix system in my 3A for well over 10 years. There's nowt wrong with them !! James Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tthomson Posted August 14, 2016 Report Share Posted August 14, 2016 With intermittent electrical problems, the first thing to consider is badly made solder joints. These can happen on anything electrical including new electronic ignition systems. The Pertronix device maybe an excellent design, but a 'dry joint' will give exactly the sort of problems you see here, and are often temperature sensitive. RobH has made a good suggestion - see if it works with normal points. If so, you will have a clearer idea of where the problem is. Good luck with it. TT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 I had the same problem when picking up my 4A from Melbourne, lots of fun driving without problems for about 450 kms. Filled up at Yass about 80K from home and immediately it started to cough and splutter. Because there was a reasonable amount of traffic I tried to keep over to the edge of the road and let people past wherever I could do so safely. From memory the engine performance gradually improved over the next hour. When I eventually discovered there was bowl under the filter in the fuel line think I found a fair bit of water still there. Hope for your sake it is that simple. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ernest Posted August 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 As ever....thanks all for advice/comments - I have quite a bit to consider now. But it's a lovely evenning and I think I will take the TR out for a run and think about the hot-start problem tomorrow!! Best Wishes Ernest Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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