nigethomas Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 Finally got my rebuilt engine put together and in the vehicle and all parts around it fitted.decided to turn it over today with all plugs out for the first time.cranked the engine over several times but no oil pressure at gauge.i have put 5 litres of oil in to start with but will need another litre.i have undone the nut that holds the oil pipe on the puralator housing and cranked the engine over but no sign of any oil coming out.the oil pump was checked for tolerance and wear during the rebuild and was all ok.not sure why no oil is being drawn up to the pressure pipe.any advice would be appreciated Cheers Nige Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 How long did you spin the motor Nige? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 +1 it can take up to 40 secs for oil to fill the filter, & all the other places it comes across before getting to the pressure gauge. Is the rotor in the distributer turning as you crank ? if so then the pump is probably doing it's thing. May be worth spinning the pump directly with a drill (running backwards). to do this you need to remove the distributer drive shaft. There is another thread on this going around at present. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nigethomas Posted May 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I spun it over several times probably about 20 seconds each time peejay Hi bob Yes the rotor arm is turning with the engine cranking over.will have to investigate the oil pump cant see it being anything else really.would the engine need maximum oil quantity in it to pump it through? Cheers Nige Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 (edited) Give it a bit longer. If you lubed all the bits when assembling it you should be fine. 5 litres will be plenty to keep the oil pickup submerged. Edited May 14, 2016 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kob666e Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 If you spin the oil pump through the dizzy you will feel the drill come under pressure as the oil pressure builds. You'd be grand with 5L for priming Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nigethomas Posted May 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 Is it just a case of removing the distributor and the shaft that drives the pump then and then spinning the oil pump over? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 Hi Nigel, I have just done the same as you and was quite worried about the prospect of anything going wrong. I have a spin on filter and had filled it as full as possible before spinning the engine With the plugs out and spinning on the starter It took about 20 seconds for the pressure gauge to start moving. You could take a screw out of the oil gallery and see if it is filling up. I wish you luck with your problem. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
A Marshall Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 There's a small pin that connects the distributor drive to the oil pump drive shaft. If that has broken,or fallen out during strip down or assembly, the engine will run without the oil pump turning. This happened in my daughter's engine and didn't do it a lot of good,so it's worth checking. , Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nigethomas Posted May 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 Hi roger Yes ive been following your recent thread on the forum.i have spun the engine over several times now about 20 seconds each time.would of thought that would be enough to build any pressure up.will look into the pump to see if operating as should be. The pump was checked over before fitment and all was ok Cheers Nige Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 All very worrying. Are there any puddles under the engine? You might then discount missing gallery plugs. You were wise to stop cranking, although we have all seen the oil pressure come up later than we had hoped. Filling the oil filter with oil prior to its installation speeds up the priming process a bit. When you put the distrubutor drive gear and shaft into the engine did you check the installation of the woodruff key in the drive shaft? No key means no drive to the pump. Item 37 in this pic http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/engine/engines-components/internal-engine-components.html Did the shaft end drive tang locate in the oil pump drive slot OK? The shaft slides up and down in the drive gear - has it got stuck so the tang is not droppping into the pump slot? Is it a repalecement pump or pump rotor set? Lots on here about the inner rotor not being properly attached to the pump rotor drive shaft. see item 44 on link above. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Harris Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Yes getting that woodruff key to stay in place is a little tricky because it tends to be a loose fit. I think i put a small dimple in it with a centre punch to make it stay put. Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kob666e Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Is it just a case of removing the distributor and the shaft that drives the pump then and then spinning the oil pump over? With relevance to Peter W's post and his link to Moss: I remove dizzy plus pedestal 39a, lift out gear drive 34 and then attach my drill to shaft (oil pump) 36 and spin the pump anticlockwise until I feel the drill come under pressure, this I do a couple of times. When I then crank on the starter, once everything is back together correctly, oil pressure should build quickly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nigethomas Posted May 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Hi peter, No oil puddles under the engine found.The distributor drive gear and shaft were already assembled when i put this in so presumed the woodruff key was already fixed in place.The shaft end located into the pump ok also.The oil pump is what came with the block i brought.i checked it over tolerance etc before fitting it. Think i will remove the distributor and the gear and shaft and check the key is still there.If thats ok i will try the drill on the pump to see if thats working.Thanks for your advice on this much appreciated.Just a big worry when ive spent so much money re building all the engine. Cheers Nige Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nigethomas Posted May 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Thanks also justin for advice on checking the pump is working Nige Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nigethomas Posted May 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 well managed to spend couple of hours on the engine last night.Removed the dizzy and pedestal first and then removed the drive gear and shaft.The gear and oil pump shaft were conected ok with no key damaged or missing.The mills pin was also in correct position and not damaged.I checked to see if the oil pump was working by using a long flat blade screwdriver and turning anti clockwise quickly.The oil was being drawn up straight away so confirmed that the pump is working ok.Ive put the shaft and drive gear back in with the slot facing in correct position at number one.The shaft eased down and meshed with the gear and i think it dropped into the pump location. However is there any way of testing the pump to see if the shaft has actually located correctly. obviously i cant see the pump as hidden inside the sump.Peter did mention this on this thread and im wondering if this is the actual problem.It feels like it has gone in correctly but cant understand why no oil pressure still. Nige Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Try taking out one of the hex bolt gallery plugs in the distributor side of the block. turn the engine (or preferably just the pump, even if its just with your screwdriver) over and see if you get flow from the gallery. If you see oil flow replace the plug and with the rocker cover removed turn the engine over looking for oil escaping from the rocker bleeds. There are a few scenarios; the pump isn't working so you don't have oil pressure/flow; you have flow and pressure but your gauge is not showing it (make sure that the gauge line isn't blocked by blowing it through and check the gauge...maybe with an airline) ; you have flow but no pressure is raised as the oil is leaking out of the system perhaps out through a stuck open relief valve; the pump is taking its time to prime the system etc. Did you use any sealing compound on the filter head/block interface? it is very easy to get some go awry and block the gauge line so just a lightly greased gasket should be used. Let us know how you get on. The more information you gather the better chance we have of finding the problem. Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) Suggest using a drill on the pump, to get pressure build up, if that does not work, then you have to investigate further, if it does then maybe you just did not wait long enough originally when cranking. Bob. Post above sneaked in while I was typing ! Edited May 17, 2016 by Lebro Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nigethomas Posted May 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Hi Andrew I havnt got the gauge connected up as was looking to see if any oil was passing by the thread on the puralator where the pressure pipe connects on to .I will check the oil gallery with the pump turning though.is it possible that the valve in the puralator is shut not allowing the filter to fill with oil? probably best to remove this as well and check.The puralator housing was put on using silicone so it could be possible that some has blocked the oil way. Hi Bob I hadnt got an attachment for the drill to fit into the pump location.When i used a long flat blade screwdriver and rolled it quickly anti clockwise the oil came up rather quickly so confirmed pump was working ok. Cheers Nige Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MKTR Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 All the threads seem to imply that the pump is not working but I wonder if it is just the pressure setting. Has the screw valve been adjusted or is all the pressure being by-passed? Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) Hi Nigel The valve in the filter head should be shut off. It is the maximum pressure relief valve and should prevent oil returning to the suction side of the pump until 70psi is reached when it should open to control the maximum pressure. Pop it out and check that the ball is seated and not allowing any oil through. Andrew. Edited May 17, 2016 by Drewmotty Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nigethomas Posted May 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Hi mark i havnt really done any adjusting on the pressure valve on puralator.i will remove the filter and see if it has filled up with oil Nige Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nigethomas Posted May 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 hi andrew Yes i will take a look at that also Nige Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Hi Nige, this is important - the tang of the oil pump drive shaft MUST be engaged in the pump slot. It is possible to have the tang not engaged and still bolt the pedestal down - albeit with a gap between block and pedestal. Remove the drive and start again. You need to see where the shaft tang points with rotor arm pointing at #1 plug. The pump slot needs to be slightly anti-clockwise to this - initially. I use a length of 3/8 copper pipe flattened at the end. Rotate the drive shaft so that it is seriously in the wrong place - measure the distant from the pedestal seat on the block to the drive gear face - something like 2.2" Now try and engage the tang into the slot. If you succeed the measurement will increase to something like 2.3". You must not fit the pedestal until the tang is correctly located. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nigethomas Posted May 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Ok thanks roger will try that Nige Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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