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The most basic problem....not starting.


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It would seem my blind optimism is a little misplaced.

With all major works complete I turned my attention to starting the engine, without success. :(

I have fuel and it's halfway up the inline filter, sediment bowl is full of clean fresh petrol.

The engine turns over albeit perhaps a little slower than I would have expected.

I get a spark from the tip of the plug to the block............but I can't see a spark at the plug gap, that may be because I am too faraway?

Tried the screwdriver across the solenoid to make things a little clearer but just ended up with a shower of sparks and another bu**ered screw driver so went back to playing contortionist.

The battery is a shiny new Bosch with bucketfuls of omphh, all earth contacts have been dismantled cleaned shined and reassembled.

 

Things I have noticed

The plugs seem very clean, too clean. (new NGK) no sign of fuel, oil or anything else.

The distributor cap is clean but 3 of the 4 contacts seem well worn (flat) the other one still looks reasonably round.

 

All suggestions gratefully received......

 

David

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Have you had the distributor drive out? (The full distributor pedestal etc)

 

If so, check it's not gone back in 180-degrees out - This causes much head scratching and no running (ask me how I know...)

 

You will still have sparks, fuel, air, compression etc, just not all at the right time!

 

Ade

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David

As Ade says easy to be 180 out.

Try slackening the pinch bolt on the dissy and then turn the engine over while turning the distributor one way or the other and also Squirt a bit of easy start into the carbs or slosh a small amount of fuel in so you know you have something explosive there.

Most engines will kick even when 20-30 out so if you have fuel, and rotate the dissy while cranking and it kicks then you then know the timing is out.

If you get to a point that it kicks with an assisted squirt but does not without then you know you have a fuel issue.

Steve

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Forgot to mention that one Stef ! :unsure:

Steve

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Check one of the float chambers, is there fuel in it? Remove inline filter? Check pump output.

Check coil wires are right way round.

When checking firing order at dist are you going the right way round?

If in doubt remove rocker cover set engine with no 1 cyl on compression (valves both closed) and check position of rotor arm should be pointing to cap sector with lead on no 1 cyl, rotate engine and check which cyl is firing next.

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Thanks all

Will try both in the morning.

Though I thought easy start was a no no?

Having had another look at the Distributor I think I may well well have refitted it wrongly, the rotor arm is pointing at number 3 plug when the pointy thing lines up with the hole in the pulley thing.

Thank you David

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Having had another look at the Distributor I think I may well well have refitted it wrongly, the rotor arm is pointing at number 3 plug when the pointy thing lines up with the hole in the pulley thing.

Thank you David

 

At TDC the rotor arm should point at cyl 1. Also check if the pulley has been refitted correctly with the hole indeed pointing at TDC. It's possible to refit the pulley wrong and get it 180° off TDC...

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Hmmm

Checked, reset and squirted easy start into the carbs, apart from a couple of backfires sod all happening.

 

Took fuel line to carbs off turned over the engine and a good flow of fuel.

Took the distributor right off and turned the spindle so that the notch in the lower portion points at number one plugole.

Replaced the top of the distributor so that the rotor arm is pointing at number one plugole.

Still getting a good spark plug to block.

Not sure I understand how I could be 180 degrees out, with my (as far as i know) standard distributor the top half will only locate with the bottom half in one position,

if it would locate both ways I could understand but weather it is due to wear or something else it will only drop in to position one way. Of course I suppose I could be 360 degrees out!

I am right.............number one cylinder is the one at the radiator end?

I would turn to the fuel side of the problem but when squirting easy start in doesn't make the bugger fire would that be a waste of time and potentially with my skill level cause further problems.

I haven't taken the pulley off so at least that should not be contributing to my woes.

Any further suggestions please............or do I do as the wife says and get a man in before I get even more grumpy.

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Not sure I understand how I could be 180 degrees out, with my (as far as i know) standard distributor the top half will only locate with the bottom half in one position,

 

Did you remove and refitted the distributor drive gear and the oil pump drive shaft at one point? If you did you may well have refitted these 180° off as the peg of the oil pump drive shaft aligns with the slot of the pump rotor shaft with no offset.

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David

 

I think you may be missing the point.

If you have squirted easy start in and it backfires it means you have a spark in the cylinders. It does not mean you have the timing right but means the dissy/points/leads/coil are at least doing basically what they are meant to do i.e igniting fuel that is in the cylinders.

If you have the timing right then a squirt of easy start will run the car for a couple of seconds-but so will a teaspoon full of fuel in each carb.

If you get the timing correct and the car runs briefly with the help of a spoon of fuel but will not run without you then know you have a fuel problem at the carb/fuel pump end.

 

If you are still having issues pm me with your contact no and I will call you later and try to talk through in as non technical terms as possible.

 

Steve

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Hmmm

Checked, reset and squirted easy start into the carbs, apart from a couple of backfires sod all happening.

 

Took fuel line to carbs off turned over the engine and a good flow of fuel.

Took the distributor right off and turned the spindle so that the notch in the lower portion points at number one plugole.

Replaced the top of the distributor so that the rotor arm is pointing at number one plugole.

Still getting a good spark plug to block.

Not sure I understand how I could be 180 degrees out, with my (as far as i know) standard distributor the top half will only locate with the bottom half in one position,

if it would locate both ways I could understand but weather it is due to wear or something else it will only drop in to position one way. Of course I suppose I could be 360 degrees out!

I am right.............number one cylinder is the one at the radiator end?

I would turn to the fuel side of the problem but when squirting easy start in doesn't make the bugger fire would that be a waste of time and potentially with my skill level cause further problems.

I haven't taken the pulley off so at least that should not be contributing to my woes.

Any further suggestions please............or do I do as the wife says and get a man in before I get even more grumpy.

You could be 360 deg out -that's half the four stroke cycle. As it is backfiring you must have sparks, so try refitting the plug leads 180 deg around the cap, number 1 is indeed at radiator end. As the disy rotates at half crank speed that corrects for a 360deg error. Peter

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Hi David, where are you, there maybe some one not too far away who can pop round?

Chris

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Hadn't thought of that.

But surely if the valves on number one are shut and the piston is at TDC it should be right?

 

Thank you David

Yes, at TDC end-compression stroke the inlet valve should have been shut for about 120deg, depending upon the cam. It normally closes after BDC. Ev shut too. If the IV has only just shutting at 'TDC' you might be 180 crank deg out, which means moving the leads 90deg ie one position.

 

Woodham Mortimer brings back memories, passed it every day on way to school in Maldon, first g/f lived there, long time ago.

A school-mate kept this beast behind WMHall, post #35:

http://forums.autosport.com/topic/67355-mystery-eight-pipes/

- it had to be push-started down the A414 past the greenhouses.

 

Peter

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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Hi David, I know Woodham Mortimer, I'm at Rochford about 10 miles from you. Which Tr group do you belong , we are East Saxons. I can try and pop over some time and have a look if you like. Send me a pm.

Chris

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Ooops, missed that one..."but I can't see a spark at the plug gap". If it is so this is not a timing but a mere HT/LT electrical problem: Faulty coil or condensator or points connectors/insulators/gap fitted incorrectly

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Hmmm. Picking up from Stef, above...

 

If you remove a spark plug, attach the HT lead to it and hold the outside of the plug (say, the thread) against the engine block (hold with insulated pliars or similar), when you have a willing assistant try to start the engine, you should see a spark at the plug gap. If you don't, work back one step; take the plug out of the HT lead, hold the lead just off the block and repeat the test. Keep working back up the chain, grounded HT lead just out of the dizzy cap...

 

However, as you say - maybe it's just that you are too far away, and actually there IS a spark at the plug. But let's at least eliminate this one ;)

Edited by TorontoTim
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Thanks all for your help and advise.

Problem overcome with a lot of hands on help from a local member, I won't go in to detail, but I did feel a bit dim having missed various glaring problems.

 

Obviously whole new can of worms opened up..............deep joy, but in the immortal words of Joan Baez "we will overcome" or should that be "Diamonds and RUST"

 

Good job I didn't book that MOT.

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Please do go into details, we want to know !

 

Thanks all for your help and advise.

Problem overcome with a lot of hands on help from a local member, I won't go in to detail, but I did feel a bit dim having missed various glaring problems.

 

Obviously whole new can of worms opened up..............deep joy, but in the immortal words of Joan Baez "we will overcome" or should that be "Diamonds and RUST"

 

Good job I didn't book that MOT.

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Lets just say you could have driven a coach and horses through the Tappet settings......on all but one of the valves.

The timing was as many people said was 180 degrees out, despite my many abortive attempts to reset it.

The result of doing the job properly (thanks Steve) the poor old beast did it's best to start............until copious amounts of cooling water started pumping out of the radiator filler (cap removed).

Head off today, clean up this weekend and see where we go from there.

Had to smile at the head removal instructions, removed all the bits and pieces, OK no major problems, undid the head bolts in sequence (thought they were supposed to be very tight?)

Then the good bit, lift of the head whilst rocking backwards and forwards, I must have looked a proper narner! seriously though there is no way I could simply lift of the head. In the end I rigged up a block and tackle from a handy roof beam and roped up round various "projections" I hasten to add not any of the studs. With the pulling end formed in to a foot operated stirrup, apply tension and wallop with a wood protected hammer in the end it gave up and separated enough to get in a few softwood wedges, many increasingly big wedges and the lump came off, made a bit of a mess of the gasket though.

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