Some bodywork advise please

[AndrewP]

Progress on my 6's resurrection...

 

People did say they like pics didnt they

 

Ive managed to get some time recently to progress the restoration of my 6 after my accident. Its been nearly 3 years since the crash and so over Christmas and new year Ive managed to press on with the body tub and getting it ready for blasting/cleaning and then paint.

 

For those of you wandering what Im on about..

 

This was before:

 

This was after:

 

and since 2013 Ive been working towards getting it back on the road.

 

Its been a tough gig with a donor car providing a new front end (A post forward) but needing a huge amount of work to get it usable (kick panels, holes battery tray and rust holes in the strangest of places)

 

Few pics here:

 

 

 

Im in no hurry, but I felt I needed to get it moving forward before it 'got away' and I lost interest.

 

 

So, to my reason for posting.

 

Im now at the trial fitment of panels phase on the newly mated body tub. The donor car provided a set of new front wings which I was told were solid.....solid with filler as it turns out!

 

Actually the drivers side magenta is as good a wing as you could hope for..rust free and a good NOS wing. The passenger side though..oh dear

 

So...question #1

 

I have 2 passenger wings. 1 from my original car, which unfortunately had twisted badly in the accident, but overall 'can' be repaired but will need a great deal of work to get it to fit properly (it has lost its top edge profile, and so it a pig to get to with a dolly).

Even if I do get it to sit right, it will need alot of lead to get the nice smooth top edge of the wing right and ripple free.

This is what I mean (A-post/bulkhead junction)

 

 

I have the donor front wing, which from mid arch is solid and good. Panel fit is great and because im also using the donor doors, the gap is pretty good straight off

 

 

But....

 

Front is not so good and the headlight bowl/surround is rotten.

 

 

So....do I repair the green wing (alot of work) or chop and graft the good front headlight section (i.e where I drawn the white line across) from the green and cut out and graft to the donor door (brown)?

 

Is the graft likely to produce a good end result? Ive been advised to cut at the narrowest point (to reduce the surface area) but unfortunately the green panels twisting/damage and the brown wings filler area are both in that area so i have to move the cut line forward if I do go this route..

 

Any advise/comments?

 

Question #2

 

Due to the accident, the drivers side B pillar took a knock and pushed the door catch towards the rear of the car.

You can see here how the inner B panel has stayed put, whilst the outer (where the striker plate mounts to) seems to have moved back 10mm or so.

 

 

The issue is that whilst the door gaps are good, the striker plate is too far back as the panel has moved backwards. This means that when the door latch comes to contact with the striker, the little torpedo part engages with the latch and pulls the door into the B post. Hard to describe, but hopefully this pic explains it:

 

 

Ive already pulled the outer B post panel out (using a slide hammer screwed into the striker mounting plate behind the B post outer) as much as I can, but its still too far back.

 

What to do?

 

Thoughts are to use a holesaw on the rear of the B panel so as to get a decent sized bit of wood behind it and pop the outer panel more (to close up that 10mm gap)

I also have the donor car with a good b post outer on it....I can always graft all or parts of the section as needed as well.

 

I can also pack the striker out a bit as well...but thats a bodge and Id rather get it bang on right or at least closer to being right and then use a rubber shim to get it spot on.

 

Thoughts?

 

Sorry for the long post, but its beginning to look like a car again rather than a collection of bits.

Its a long way yet, but with the engine tear-down and a light overhaul, its coming together.

 

Thanks if you can advise.

Andrew

Edited February 15, 2016 by AndrewP

[Sapphire72]

Excellent explanation & photos of the issues, Andrew.

You have made great progress. Most folks would have sent it to the graveyard. It was a beauty & will be again.

 

Be looking for a good wing replacement, rather then trying to cut off the rusted section, or straighten the bent original.

No comments on the B pillar, good luck with that.

[stuart]

No reason why not to cut and shut the wing at the necessary point, mount it on the car and fit the bonnet and the grill too so that you have 3 reference points. You could unpick the whole of the back of the "B" if your careful so you could straighten the front face properly.

Stuart.

[John Morrison]

Hi Andrew,

 

 

I've grafted two good halfs of a 3A front wing together with no problems.

Lots of patience, and it is straitforward, and from what you have now, can't see that you have much to lose if you are

unhappy with the final result.

You can always source a replacement then.

 

John.

[aardvark]

Hello Andrew.

 

I have to ask ... that looks like a horrendous crash. I hope you escaped relatively unharmed?

 

Regards

 

Dave

[foster461]

Hello Andrew.

 

I have to ask ... that looks like a horrendous crash. I hope you escaped relatively unharmed?

 

Regards

 

Dave

 

Here's the original post from Tony M about Andrews unfortunate event. Good job Andrew for persevering.

 

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/40003-tr6-totalled/?p=307441

[AndrewP]

Thanks for the replies gents,

 

I didnt think about the bonnet and grille fitting Stuart, so I`ll be doing that to get it all as close as possible to minimise and loading I`ll need to do...thanks for the advise.

 

Im trying to avoid unpicking the front of the B post as Ive only just welded it back up to the new floor and inner/outer sill on that side, and did a 'belt and braces' approach to welding it back up (MIG puddle welded every few CM's or so) so I fear that by the time Im finished unpicking, that there wont be much of the actual metal panel left!

 

I`ll give it a clean up so I can see where its moved as it might be localised to just the door catch area (a few inches above and below it looks pretty original and un-moved). It might be that I can use the donor car again and cut the bent section and replace with the straight panel from the donor?

 

If I do graft the good bits together for the passenger front wing...butt or joggled overlap? I have a selection of those butt weld box clamps and a joggler so I can do either...whats the easiest and strongest way to get it correct whilst minimising the risk of warping the panel?

 

Finally, thanks for the concern...thankfully Im OK..it was very painful at the time and its not advised to crash in a 1960's car BTW. I ended up with a few weeks in hospital and a titanium plate inserted to hold cheek bone together whilst the bones knitted. I need a final op probably this year to remove the plate and re-set my nose as it looks worse than when I was playing rugby!

Fun times, but got to thank my lucky stars that Im still around to tell the tale.

Karma will and has hopefully caught up with the guy that caused this (as he initially drove off) but no charges laid due to insufficient evidence (his word against mine) but..moved on and more important things to worry about with wife, kids, work, and life in general being far more important...oh and English classic cars..I MUST be mad!

 

Oh and I find it a bit funny that the link to my original post above I cant get to (non-member)..how times have changed.

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

Edited February 16, 2016 by AndrewP

[stuart]

So probably best to open a section of the rear of the "B" post then Andrew. The front wing join will depend on your welding skills if you butt weld it you will need to do it slowly bit by bit and with a good heatsink behind (Copper block) if you joddle it you might find it difficult to get a neat joddle edge due to the curve of the wing.

Stuart.

[AndrewP]

Many thanks for the advise Stuart it was invaluable today.

 

So..update.

 

Thanks to the info here, I dove head first into it today.

Knowing an original front wing is rarer than rocking horse poo over here, and a repro wing is $1000+ to get it landed here (and then needs work to get it to fit) I gave it go.

 

So...chopped off the crusty front section. As it turns out, it looks like its been in an accident and badly (very badly) repaired. The filler was 10mm + thick in some areas.

I made up a simple paper template using the mounting holes and the repeater holes as a reference to get it right. \

Measure twice, cut once?...Pah..measure 100000000000 times, cut once

 

 

Then ever-so-slowly tack the new section in place. I used the butt weld clamps where I could and ensured important lines (swage line, top of wing etc,) all lined up. After each tack..a light tap on the weld and an air gun to cool it down/keep it cool to minimise any warping.

 

 

Once it had been tacked all the way and the fit was pretty spot on, I filled the rest in...bit by bit..cooling down each time.

 

 

Finally, dressed the weld carefully, stripped the old paint off using a wire wheel on my grinder, rust and etch primer. Thankfully, my original wing was nice and rust free under the paint, although I counted at least 5 layers of paint..its been olive green, baby blue, red and few coats of green all with primer/isolation coats inbetween!...the cars 6" thinner now

 

 

Finally, coat of primer to see then end result (without any skim of filler). Hardly see where it was joined.

 

 

Im very happy with the result. Took all afternoon but well worth the patience.

 

Hopefully a reference for anyone else thinking about it., but thank you all for the advise.

 

Onwards!

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

Edited February 20, 2016 by AndrewP

[Mark69]

Well done Andrew

An afternoon well spent.

Mark

[stuart]

Well done Andrew, takes me back to doing that in the seventies on XJ6`s.

Stuart.

[SeanF]

Brilliant work Andrew. Well done.

Sean

[AndrewP]

Soo..

 

its been a while since I updated this saga.

 

Just a few days ago it passed the 4 year mark since the accident that caused the damage to me and the car in the above posts so its somewhat apt that just yesterday it has (in my opinion) turned a corner....PAINT

 

Nearly 6 months of prep..going round, welding, panel beating, filling, flatting, primer (and repeat ad-infinitum) yesterday marked a big day of progress.

 

I found a place in Perth where I was able to rent a proper down-draft spray booth, and so accordingly attired (proper iso-cyanate spec mask..many opinions online for this but this is what I used :- http://www.srsafety.com/upl/files/5995.pdf, jump suit, gloves) and the best quality paint I could get..I spent a looonnngg day getting to this point:

 

 

I used a single 2pak paint (Paraglaze http://www.protec.com.au/products/category/paraglaze)and a decent Devibliss gun and alot of panel prep (wipes and tac cloths) I managed to get a reasonable result.

 

A HUGE learning curve for me...I hugely underestimated how long and the effort (physically and mentally) it would take to get the tub painted.

You are in a booth, large fans blowing, hot, in a rubber-lined protective suit, full face mask on...its not a nice place to be for an extended period of time.

As a marker...My day started @ 6am to get the car loaded onto the trailer and strapped down to take to the workshop, then when there it took me nearly 1 hour to get the car off the trailer, up on stands, setup and then at least an hour to mask and prep then a further 1.5-2hrs to paint the underside with 3 coats (then bake @ 50C) clean the gun etc etc while its baking. Then flip the car over and it all begins again..another hour to mask and prep, with another 2 hours to paint the topside (then bake). Then tidy up, clean everything etc etc...I got home @ 7pm, with a 7am start to go collect the car as it was left in overnight to harden off.

Its claustrophobic and hot going back in the booth after the bake is horrid...even though you can suck out the air heat quickly, the body and panels hold the heat for a long time after. Even hotter and more sweaty.

 

Anyway...the result?

 

Mostly satisfied.

Its been said before..but prep..prep and prep makes the end finish. Ive found a few runs that can be carefully flatted back which I put down to over exuberance and probably not planning over the gun strokes/runs before painting.

A bit of contamination...as much as you vacuum/roll/tip the body/blast/blow the blast medium out of the tub there always seemed to be some coming out of different areas. Some unfortunately got into the paint but generally not in areas where it would concern anyone (carpet/sound deadening will cover it). Bits of fluff also seem to appear from nowhere and adhere themselves to scuttle panels

I rushed the bonnet and didnt really put enough prep into the huge panel....and when you get the high gloss paint on...you see a whole host of new dings, depressions and bumps that you would swear were never there. Being such a large curved panel also..any blemishes stick out like the dogs proverbials. I`ll be blocking and re-doing the bonnet again, but at least its painted and sealed at the moment.

 

Anyway..a few more pics but overall Id give it a 7/10. Its not perfect, but the visible parts are looking good and will just need a minor 1500-2000 flatting to knock the tops of the minor peel.

 

Happy to go into more detail but for now..onwards.

 

 

 

Cheers

Andrew

Edited March 26, 2017 by AndrewP

[Guest]

Brilliant job. And perfectly written.

 

M.

[graeme]

Looking good Andrew, well done.

 

Graeme

[Mark69]

Great achievement Andrew well done.

7 years in and still along way to go before paint , slightly envious.

Mark

[mike3739]

Hard to believe its been four years Andrew but you are getting there good to hear.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Steves_TR6]

Wow, great job Andrew!

[Kevo_6]

Well done Andrew, you've definitely turned the corner.

Not long now and you'll be giving her a blast.

[Richard Young]

What a story Andrew...in awe.

[ed_h]

Well done, Richard!

 

Ed

[foster461]

Great update Andrew and great progress. The panel prep and paint sure does take a long time, it is no wonder that a pro paint job with quality paint costs an arm and a leg.

 

On my TR3 we used 3M dry guide coat and sanded off a lot of primer before we were happy with the panel and then we put three coats of clear on top of the color so we had something we could wet sand.

 

Stan

[stuart]

Well done Andrew, looking good. FWIW its best to do any flatting and polishing now rather than later as it will be easier to get the scratches out while its still a bit soft.

Stuart.

[SeanF]

Great Job Andrew. A major corner turned!

 

Sean

[AndrewP]

So...a few months have passed since my last update. I think I may be posting in a few places with progress as Ive been asking questions...but hopefully people can follow my ramblings.

 

Firstly...Got everything finished and bolted to the tub to make sure everything lined up

 

(One of my tidier garage days!!)

 

 

 

Then...I admit I waved the white flag...I shipped the final panel and paint off to a local place to get it right. My reasoning was although I couldn't really afford the cost, I didnt have the time, nor the skill to get the final finish correct. After all, its the bit that people see so I wanted it right.

I negotiated a half-way house with the painter and made sure I visited regularly to ensure any roadblocks were worked out ASAP and I ended up with a good result. Is it concurs? No..but thats the compromise between cost and end result.

 

 

 

All up 60+ hours went into just the prep from the above pic to get everything blocked, flat and lining up correctly...further hours then in the paint booth with 3 x base + 3 x clear coat to get to this point along with stone chip/anti-gravel on the rears of the panels. I had negotiated that a good gun finish would be fine as I`ll wet sand it back and give it a final buff/polish when its ready.

 

So the result?..

 

 

 

So..this takes us up to the last month or so..

 

A few jobs first...scuttle drain holes. I found retic fittings work well as a outlet. Better than the grommets they supply at any rate..

 

 

Then lights. .fit out of all the ancillaries takes longer than youd expect.

At least its beginning to look like a car again!

 

 

Onwards!

 

Andrew

Edited March 19, 2018 by AndrewP