TR4 windscreen seals for dummies!

[Phillhoare]

Hi all

 

Just about to attempt to fit a new windscreen seal and trim and have fallen at the first hurdle! I can't even work out which part of the seal goes over the screen. There are 3 contenders - one complicated one with a flap and a ribbed section, one plain, quite deep and certainly wide enough for the glass and one shallow semi circular (in section) base one.

I know I've just turned 60 but I didn't expect such incompetence to strike so quickly!!

Any help much appreciated.

Phill

[RogerH]

Hi Phil join the club - it's a minefield out there.

 

The shallow one is for the trim. Some people fit the trim first before installing it into the frame - not my way though.

The one that looks like it will take the glass is for the glass.

The ribbed one is for the frame.

 

Fit the seal to the glass,

Set the lower section of the seal onto the lower flange of the frame then using the string that you installed earlier (you did that, didn;t you) pull the rubber into its correct position.

 

Roger

[peejay4A]

Plenty of ky jelly will help.

[RogerH]

oh no - not the KY jelly jokes again

 

Roger

[Geko]

Before anything check whether the plastic/chrome trim has the same "T" profile as the inner profile of the seal otherwise the trim will stay proud no matter how hard you try to press it in.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Geko

[stillp]

oh no - not the KY jelly jokes again

 

Roger

The more manly types use Swarfega.

 

Pete

[AlanT]

SOAP. FILLER IN FIRST.

 

B****r it, I am going to post all the notes I made at the time.

 

SORRY!

Edited February 8, 2016 by AlanT

[AlanT]

TR4/4A - FITTING A WINDSCREEN

 

 

Sooner or later every TR owner will come to replacing the windscreen.

You will find stuff on the web that mentions the "rope-trick" and the general method of putting the rubber around the glass first. Other cars, Mini for instance, have a different type of seal and a different method.

But there are a lot of important details missing. This means owners will often lack confidence and find a professional to do this. This is OK, no doubt, IF YOU FIND THE RIGHT PERSON.

So I decided to write this as a personal account of how I do it. I dont doubt you can do it loads of other ways. But this works for me and is not much of a effort, does not need two people, and offers no risk to paint or glass.

First the "rope". This has to be just right. NOT ROUGH like a real rope. But needs to take a good pull. The woven nylon cord you use for picture-hanging might do but is a bit slippery. I use stuff from HobbyCraft. Its 4mm in diameter and has the right texture so that you dont tear up the trim but still get some friction to draw on the rubber. It's a bit like an old-fashioned shoe-lace.

Next lubricant. I dissolve a piece of white hand-washing soap in water so I get a creamy paste. Needs to stand around for a month or so to get this effect. Seal it up in a small plastic tub.

My wife allowed use of a spray bottle that normally waters house-plants. This delivers water as a mist. Soap is only slippery when wet!

Try to do it all with out any screwdrivers, wooden sticks or other ways of forcing the rubber about. TRY!

But at the corners its really hard to get the rope out. I have a hook-tool for opening pots of paint. About 1in wide with the end turned through 90 degrees. NO SHARP CORNERS. Use this to pull back the rubber if the rope gets stuck. You slip it under the lip where its already been pulled over the flange. You slide the tool along and pull the lip over. Lubricate the tool so it slides.

Also an old bank-card is useful to slip between the rubber and the glass so you can activate the soap lubricant with the water mist.

IF YOU SKIP THE REST READ THE NEXT BIT.

You are going to rely on the fact the the groove in the rubber is deep and so you can move it off the glass a bit without it jumping right off. Later on you can push on the glass so it slides back into the rubber. SO YOU HAVE TO PUT SOAP IN THE GROOVE, so the glass will slide about, for this to happen.

Note that you push on the EGDE of the glass NOT the face. The edge has rubber over it or course, so its easy to push on it.

Lubricate the flange on the screen-frame BUT only the TOP and SIDES. Leave the bottom. I'll explain why later.

Similarly the inner lip of the rubber that you pull over the flange. Top and Sides ONLY.

My glass and rubber came from MOSS.

My screen-frame was trimmed with Vinyl from Skinner and goes over the flange and covers inside and outside faces. This makes the flanges much thicker than originally. This does not make it any easier but does not seem to create much difficulty either.

DONT DO THIS OUTSIDE ON A HOT DAY. THE EFFORT WILL MAKE YOU OVERHEAT.

Mark the exact centre of the glass at the TOP and line up the join in the rubber. You will find it hard to get the rubber onto the glass until you get it going. You need to master a tricky hand movement that wiggles the rubber so that the edges jump over the edge of the glass. At some stage it will jump off. Just persevere. You will get it on after a while.

I did this with the outside face of the screen on a polythene sheet on my front lawn. This makes the corners stick up. Once you have one long edge and two corners on, you can put the glass vertical so the rubber wont jump off.

Put the "chrome-finisher" in next. These do go in after you have fitted the whole thing but its quite hard to do. Having the finisher in actually helps the fitting because the rubber keeps a better shape.

I would practice the next bit BEFORE fitting the rope into the groove. Because this is a critical step.

Position the whole thing in the screen-frame. Check very carefully that the glass is centralised. Check the gaps between the rubber and the frame at each side. Also check the centre-mark against the screw in the top of the frame.

Bring the screen out at the top a bit, so the glass stands more vertical and make the INNER lip jump over the flange on the bottom edge. This must be quite easy because I found by accident that it does this.

At this stage the OUTER lip will be tucked the wrong way. Work your finger under it, starting at the corners. SLIDE THE RUBBER OFF THE GLASS a little so that the lips stay in place on the screen frame. If you had lubricated them they would keep slipping back.

Once you have mastered doing this, take it all out and lay the rope into the groove where the flange will go. The ends cross-over at the centre on the bottom edge. Replace the glass in the frame and engage the rubber lips as before. This is a bit harder to do now because the rope is in the way. But because you practised first you will be able to do it.

Work at it until inner and outer lips are correctly positioned on the screen-frame along most of the bottom edge and into the corner as far as possible, BUT NOT ROUND THE CORNERS YET.

Bear down on the top edge of the glass. Spray water. Add a bit more lubricant. Eventually you make the glass drop down into the rubber. This will bring the top edge of the seal so that you can see it will PASS EASILY into the recess of the frame.

DONT DO THE ROPE-TRICK UNTIL YOU ARE SURE that the glass is as low as it will go.

People break these all the time by having the glass stuck too high because the rubber holds it quite tightly. They try to force the top edge when its still too high up.

Now pull out a few inches of rope. The lip is already over the flange along the bottom so this will pull easily and will just make really sure that the lip is fully over. You cant see easily right into the corner.

Keep going a few inches on each side until you get about 1in past each of the lower corners. You may need the "hook-tool" at the corners because the rope is tighter here.

Bear down on the top edge of the glass and press the rubber into the recess of the frame. Dont pull more rope until the rubber has entered the recess and the inner seal is actually touching the flange on the "wrong" side. Soap and water as required.

When you pull the rope now it will be harder than before. YOU DONT SIMPLY PULL ON IT. You make a kind of circular movement so that at each turn a little more rubber pops over the flange. Make sure the outer lip is not tucked under. Work a few inches at each side.

When you get to the top corner you have reached a tricky stage. On three sides the inner lip is over the flange but the screen cant go fully in because the lip at top edge is still wrong. These corners therefore are REALLY TIGHT. You may not be able to get the rope to move.

Be very careful now. You want to relieve a bit of this pressure by pushing the rubber outwards at a top corner. Maybe 1-2mm. You are just stretching the rubber a bit. Sneak out a bit more lip each time you push.

Push too hard and the sides will pop back out. If they do its not really hard to fish them over with the hook-tool or re-thread the rope.

Coax the lip over the flange until you get to the straight top section. Same the other side. The rest is easy. Eventually the rope starts to pull right through and you have to pull both ends at once. Watch for the outer lip being ticked under.

At no stage have you hit anything, levered anything or used immense strength.
Nor have you twisted or strained the glass. You only ever put pressure on the edge of the glass NEVER on the FACE!

You needed a firm grip and strong fingers to push some rubber about. And the right lubricant in the right places. And the right rope.

Oh and one more thing. I doubt you would be able to do it this way unless the frame was on the car.

Dont see why anyone used to using his hands could not manage this.

Al.

Edited February 8, 2016 by AlanT

[Phillhoare]

Thanks folks,

 

So presumably the section that the chrome trim goes in closes up once the seal is fitted to the glass? I don't think it wouldn't grip anything beforehand as its too wide?

 

Phill

[AlanT]

Here is a little bit of the original chrome-finisher.

 

Put the rubber around the screen, then this should stay in.

 

LEAVE IT 2in too long on EACH SIDE. It is amazing how much this will shrink.

 

[RogerH]

DO NOT cut to size for as long as possible (a week or three).

 

Roger

Edited February 9, 2016 by RogerH

[Tom Fremont]

Thanks to AlanT for relating the process in such agonizing detail . I would have attempted with fewer words but better to err on the side of surplus.

 

My 2 cents:

 

I've always used vinyl/rubber protectant spray to lubricate. It can go everywhere without adverse consequences. Lube the rope groove copiously and wipe the frame surface where the rubber is to be dragged across.

 

Amen to the paint can opener, indispensable for pulling the inside lip over the vinyl covering of the frame.

 

1/4" braided nylon rope is best. This has a fine surface relative to the 3-strand twisted type.

 

Centre the seal seam on the glass.

 

Now for the missing piece in Alan's treatise: the height of the glass cannot exceed 15-3/8". Return any sample exceeding this value; it won't fit. I had at least (2) from the referenced supplier above in the U.S. which were defective that way. After I broke the 2nd they credited me for it when I reported it and sent a photo with a ruler showing the dimension of 15-1/2".

 

FWIW, the last one went in with no assistance and fits perfectly. It came from TRF .

 

 

Cheers,

Tom

[AlanT]

I wrote it down so I could do it again if someone asked me or I got a broken one.

 

I had half an eye on publishing it, but only half an eye. Hence my comment in the post before.

 

I did a lot of web research and had a chat with an old pro, who I ran into at my painters.

 

Here is the cord I used:

 

[Phillhoare]

Thanks again!

Just one more thing, the frame is off the car as well, should I put it back on before fitting the screen or put the glass into the frame on the bench then fit it all to the car?

Phill

[peejay4A]

I think you'll have trouble holding it still on the bench. I'd do it in the car, some well directed welly is required.

[RogerH]

Hi Phil,

as Pete states you need to have the frame held steady otherwise it will be off down the road.

I made up a jig to hold it on my work bench vertically which allowed all round access - clamped a piece of 4x2 t the bench with holes drilled to take the two pillars.

 

Roger

[stuart]

I do them on the bench, easier than on the car.

Stuart.

[qkingston]

Having just spent a frustrating and unproductive day trying to get the screen into the frame, the is a most helpful post. I note there is no reference to the use of windscreen sealant, is it not needed? 

Rgds David 

[stuart]

17 minutes ago, qkingston said:

Having just spent a frustrating and unproductive day trying to get the screen into the frame, the is a most helpful post. I note there is no reference to the use of windscreen sealant, is it not needed? 

Rgds David 

You certainly can use it though the Moss rubbers are a very tight fit so you need a very small nozzle on the tube.

Stuart.

[qkingston]

Thanks Stuart, so do people generally fit then without sealant, back light window also? 

David 

[stuart]

11 hours ago, qkingston said:

Thanks Stuart, so do people generally fit then without sealant, back light window also? 

David 

No try and use sealer for front and rear.

Stuart.