Graze Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 New 89mm pistons and overall high performance motor - now done almost 2000 miles and revs beautifully, lots of torque and very happy with overall performance Leaks a fair bit of oil from front plate and rear seal of engine but am ok with this Used about 1.25L today on a fast 210 mile run which included a climb up a significant mountain pass (think hill not alps being Australian hinterland mountains). Most of drive was in the 3000-3600 rev range which equates to about 115km/hr in 4th. Does not blow any blue smoke on state up or when under acceleration. Some black smoke when under full WOT due to mikuni carbs Lots of black sooty residue around rear hindquarters of the car. Fuel economy about 28mpg Some emulsified oil/water looking residue in top entry to catch can (this is the highest point of the system about level with the top of the rocker cover) which might suggest head gasket, but, no oil in water or residue in oil, and consistent 180psi across all cylinders Does not use coolant Engine has never completely overheated but did once get to slightly above 70 deg on temp gauge when switch for thermo fan malfunctioned Thoughts welcome on oil usage? And is it possible for the engine to produce water vapor which can mix with oil in line to catch can causing the residue Any other thought welcome Thanks in advance Graze Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hi Graze, I had major oil leaks on a 4A engine two years ago from the front engine plate and out the back somewhere. I had to drop the engine and disassemble. The fore and aft plugs in the main oil gallery had major problems. They had been removed by the machine shop to do an acid clean. They replaced whatever came out with 'steel' plugs. These had a screwdriver slot hacksawed in and were neither tight or sealed. I removed these (very easily) and used the correct Ali plugs (they come on a strip of 5 or so). After reassembly the leaks were cured. I think you need to accurately find out where the leaks are before doing anything else. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graze Posted January 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Roger Thanks Unfortunately my friend who built the engine for me passed away last September so I can't ask him what he did. He was a noted triumph engine builder. Having just got it running so well I'm loathe to pull it all apart again ( not in my skill set and more money) I can cope with the oil usage at the moment so long as the forum wisdom doesn't think it is doing harm Car goes briliantly Graze Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Graze My engine was rebuilt to exactly your spec. albeit with Webers rather than Mikuni carbs (and when yours gets on a rolling road I would love to see the comparison as Mikunis might be the ultimate.) Right from early running in there was quite bit of emulsification in the catch tank but no water in the oil. Several people looked at it and thought the engine was fine, and it certainly ran very well indeed. After about 5,000 miles we pulled the head and the head gasket was leaking. Diagnosis suggested worn head studs (the excellent engine builder tried to save me a few quid!) Now running with a new head gasket and studs, the catch tank has no emulsification at all. Your call, but I would pull the head and check since it is not a big job. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graze Posted January 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) GrazeMy engine was rebuilt to exactly your spec. albeit with Webers rather than Mikuni carbs (and when yours gets on a rolling road I would love to see the comparison as Mikunis might be the ultimate.)Right from early running in there was quite bit of emulsification in the catch tank but no water in the oil. Several people looked at it and thought the engine was fine, and it certainly ran very well indeed.After about 5,000 miles we pulled the head and the head gasket was leaking. Diagnosis suggested worn head studs (the excellent engine builder tried to save me a few quid!)Now running with a new head gasket and studs, the catch tank has no emulsification at all. Your call, but I would pull the head and check since it is not a big job.Paul I really appreciate this advice - happy to pull head off and check, I have a spare head gasket. Pretty sure the bolts were replaced but can check invoices Is it worth retorquing the head again first? I'll add a link to the rolling road printout http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/54656-tr4-engine-rebuild-complete/&do=findComment&comment=453380 Graze Edited January 9, 2016 by Graze Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hi Graze, did you re-torque the head after 500 miles or so?. If not do it now and see what happens. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Graze, Great to hear you have your TR up and running. Your spec seems fairly similar to mine, though it seems you have a sealed water system - mine is the overflow type. Comments: Leakage from the front plate is unusual - arguable how much actual loss is although it does make a mess. If it's from the timing chain cover, it's not too bad a fix. Otherwise . . . . . I do get gunge in the rad header tank but doesn't seem to lead to any other problems. But - I don't have a catch can and I suspect the characteristics of these systems can vary greatly depending on your crankcase ventilation. I have a kinda custom system - sealed but no catch tank as I don't like the clumsy look of them. My car gets to normal temp very very quickly and goes beyond that frequently - just takes a slightly warm day or a bit of traffic. But - even when the temp gauge is near the max for longer than I am comfortable with, it doesn't lose water. Level stays at the usual level, that being a shallow depth in the header tank. I am running webers, 42DCOEs set up on a rolling road by experts (TREnterprises). I too have sooty staining on the rear around the exhaust, but if you are getting 28mpg, don't worry and don't complain. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Graze, Thanks for reminding me about your dyno figures. I remember now that I didn't comment at the time because the graph confused me and I decided comparisons are pointless unless done on the same dyno at the same time. I would pull the head for peace of mind because it is absolutely the only way to know for sure. You have emulsification I and would want to know why. If the gasket is leaking then retorquing it won't fix any gasket damage, so even if it stops the leak you are heading for a problem eventually. Your engine is much higher spec and more expensive than mine so for the sake of a couple of hours work I would just do it. Lots of people told me they had emulsification and it wasn't a problem but then it depends how hard they drive etc. I thrash the arse off mine because that's what a TR engine needs and likes if it is built properly. No gunge good. Gunge bad. Simples. You could also stick your nose in the rocker cover and radiator. If you can smell petrol at all then definitely pull the head. Edited January 9, 2016 by Paul Harvey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Graze What grade of oil are you using? Some oils are better at reducing emulsion. It may also be that you are running too cool, and the water vapour is not being burnt off, is there any sign of the emulsion on the inside of the rocker cover, or is just in the catch tank? Could just be the fumes cooling in the catch tank and leaving the water vapour there. It would be beneficial to retorque the head, but back off the nuts a bit before re torqueing in the right sequence. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Picking up on John's points above, 70 degrees seems a bit low to me and if you're regularly running that cool then maybe it's not strange that you're getting an emulsion forming. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Graze My engine was rebuilt to exactly your spec. albeit with Webers rather than Mikuni carbs (and when yours gets on a rolling road I would love to see the comparison as Mikunis might be the ultimate.) Right from early running in there was quite bit of emulsification in the catch tank but no water in the oil. Several people looked at it and thought the engine was fine, and it certainly ran very well indeed. After about 5,000 miles we pulled the head and the head gasket was leaking. Diagnosis suggested worn head studs (the excellent engine builder tried to save me a few quid!) Now running with a new head gasket and studs, the catch tank has no emulsification at all. Your call, but I would pull the head and check since it is not a big job. Yep Should have been done right first time Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hi Graze, Regarding oil consumption, I found that running my 4 cyl engine with the oil level at halfway on the dipstick reduced consumption. I have heard others experience this too. Cheers Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graze Posted January 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Gents Thanks all for the comments Roger -yes re-tourqed at 500 miles Pete/John - Car is running a bit cool as I haven't yet replaced thermoswitch for the electric fan and just have it running all the time so this may contribute Will remove head and replace gasket, also need to re set valve clearances Will report back Graeme - have run the car with oil both at top of markers on dipstick and halfway - still seems to like using it. I'm using Penrite 20w-60 which is their recommended oil for Triumph TR4. Claimed to ave extra zinc 1600ppm. Oil pressure around 25 at hot idle and 60 at 3000 revs Thanks Graze Edited January 9, 2016 by Graze Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Diagnosis suggested worn head studs (the excellent engine builder tried to save me a few quid!) How would worn studs have an effect? If they have enough thread to take the correct torque setting then surely they'll put enough pressure on the head and gasket? What am I missing here? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Dunno, I've built over 20 x 4 cylinder engines and never used a new stud yet. Replaced studs with damage or galled threads with other good used ones, I guess 30 years without comeback should stand for something, just have to replace the satisfaction of buying new studs with the time used in the application of checking the used studs minutely and with thought. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Triumph TR4. Claimed to ave extra zinc 1600ppm. Oil pressure around 25 at hot idle and 60 at 3000 revsThanksGraze Pressures sound a bit low for a new engine running 20w60 oil Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graze Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Bob I can adjust it up slightly but thought that was set about right Graze Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Dunno, I've built over 20 x 4 cylinder engines and never used a new stud yet. Replaced studs with damage or galled threads with other good used ones, I guess 30 years without comeback should stand for something, just have to replace the satisfaction of buying new studs with the time used in the application of checking the used studs minutely and with thought. Mick Richards With such pearls of wisdom I already saved a lot on my rebuild, that plus a set of liners... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steveb19 Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Just put my 4 back on road after thirty years. Second timeout this morning after three miles temp gauge in red and blowing steam out like crazy from rad overflow pipe. Main road I was on Had no option but drive another two miles to pals garage . Boiling its head off and running rough. Think head gaskets gone. Baffled at moment why it's happened, taking head off Friday. Flushed the rad many times before fitting, using 100 per cent coolant, no leaks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 100 per cent coolant ? Is that anti freeze or water ? Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steveb19 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Proper coolant/antifreeze. I'm gutted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 After a 30 year standing period you can't tell what's caused a possible head problem. My guess is a blockages around number 4 cylinder causing localised overheating (the engine leans backwards and silt accumulates there), carefully lift the head off and look for the blown gasket area. Then check liner heights ( with a depth micrometer ) in 4 positions around each liner and record the measurements, that will give you an idea what's to be done. If they are low or even staggered it's often enough to allow a reduction in clamping force and then a blown gasket. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stanpartmanpartwolf Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Graze- please post a photo or two of your breather set-up. Even the lowest back pressure there will cause substantial oil leakage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graze Posted April 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Jon I'll get some photos for you this weekend Graze Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graze Posted April 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Jon The engine has a breather from the rocker cover which loops around behind the engine and joins a T junction to a breather line which comes from the bottom rear of the block on the passenger side(RHD) and runs to a catch can mounted on the bulkhead in front of the wiper motor. The catch can then vents to the road adjacent to the block Is it potentially causing too much back pressure? Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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