Racestorations exhaust manifold

[Graham]

Hi All

 

Now that BUO is in bits and boxed up and the weather is far to inclement to tidy the garden I've taken to my usual past time of surfing the web looking for go faster, louder, shinier bits and I've come across this http://www.racetorations.co.uk/triumphs-c56/tr5-tr250-c7/tr5-engine-c17/racetorations-manifold-mild-steel-exhaust-race-p523Now it look like it should do the job but I'm only planning to run something like a Moss fast road '89 cam( Inlet Timing: 36-74,Exhaust Timing: 58-34,Duration: 290 degrees,Lift: 0.293",Installation Figure: 106 degrees,Power Band: 2750-6250) with a fully flowed head and a 10.5:1 compression, so would it actually produce any benefit over something like the more modestly priced Phoenix manifolds http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RR1400A ?

 

Ideally I would have liked a lower CR but a PO (me) spent £400 in about 1985! sending a then stage 3 Triumph Tune head to Oselli running to have it 'improved' so I'm sort of stuck with it, at the time we still had leaded so it wasn't an issue, having said that running it on super unleaded and additive since I've had her back seems to work fine with no apparent pinking.

 

ATB Graham

[TriumphV8]

Graham, that is a very interesting question.

I have a similar engine in use and found it difficult

to get reliable data. Our friend GT offers a similar

exhaust and claims a huge benefit.

 

I asked for taking that exhaust and put it on the bench

and optimize with MegaSquirt to get the best out of it and

post the results and if it improves I would buy it from GT

but he refused. ...... You may ask why.....

 

What inlet system do you use?

With the 290 degree cam individual runners would improve.

Mine has the 290 degree BASTUCK and idles nicely

and pulls away from idle like a car with Newman PH1.

 

 

Anyway I would make a dynochart before and after

or there is a nice item from Sigma, a bike speedo

that can measure acceleration from 30-60 or whatever

you like for comparison before-after.

 

http://www.amazon.de/Sigma-Sport-Motorrad-Computer-01813/dp/B00GK4IA2A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1448097027&sr=8-2&keywords=sigma+motorrad+tacho

[Graham]

Hi Andreas

 

When I originally did all this work the car was running standard 150 PI set up wit the exception that the metering unit was set up to run 10% richer than normal, like I said in previous post this was before many TR specialist had access to rolling roads so tweaking the MU in tis way was the best that (I) could do.

 

The car also currently has an unusual exhaust manifold it has single runners with collect 1-3 and 4-6 into 2 near the stater motor as per the other Racestorations manifold but where these would normally be then fed into a 2-1 to give a single pipe I have a further 2 pipes which run along the gearbox and then they finally join to a single pipe at the back of the G.box

 

The manifold is old and causing clearance issues with the stater motor hence my thinking of replacing it

ATB Graham

[TriumphV8]

Have the same exhaust manifold with very long primaries,

difficult to clear frame, starter und engine rubber.

 

The inlet manifold seems to be perfect for the envisaged job

but I wonder if the MU will do. Not from full load, the MU can

deliver that, but as the manifold pressure with hotter cam drops

significantly, the springs inside might need a tune, too.

 

I was astonished how different the springs between 123HP CR and the 143HP Cp are already

and the 290 degree BASTUCK was a similar step although just from the numbers there was

only 10degrees upwards where before it was 20 degrees.

 

The hotter cam will be healthy to high CR because the later inlet close willl decrease cylinder

filling at low revs where pinking occurs to some extend and so avoid pinking.

The higher CR gives better torque from idle and compensates the hotter cam somewhat.

[marki]

Hi All.

I'm having my engine rebuilt at the moment by Frank Anderson race engines, he's worked with race engines all he's life and has some impressive wins on track.

He says even spending lots and lots of money on Manifolds you are still only to gain a few BHP, if this is to be a full race speck engine then it's worth it if it's for road use then you're better spending the money elsewhere.

Just out of interest the best he got from a Triumph 6 cylinder was just under 300 BHP :-)

Mark

[Mark Frith]

300 bhp !!! Dreaming

[Ragtag]

Just out of interest the best he got from a Triumph 6 cylinder was just under 300 BHP :-)

 

 

 

300 bhp !!! Dreaming

 

Oh dear......

[Ragtag]

The Racetorations manifold at least follows the right theory but for that sort of money it would be reasonable to expect data sheets, quantifying the gains with hard numbers so you can evaluate 'bang for buck'.

 

My understanding (which is admittedly limited) is that very few aftermarket manifolds provide any meaningful improvement over the original cast iron jobby.

[TRTOM2498PI]

I have never heard of 300bhp out of one of these engines. Typically 240/250bhp is realistic, with circa 220lbs ft.

 

300bhp sounds excessive to me.

[oldtuckunder]

 

or there is a nice item from Sigma, a bike speedo

that can measure acceleration from 30-60 or whatever

you like for comparison before-after.

 

http://www.amazon.de/Sigma-Sport-Motorrad-Computer-01813/dp/B00GK4IA2A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1448097027&sr=8-2&keywords=sigma+motorrad+tacho

 

Like it, Like it, I want one, now is there anyway I could hook that up to one of the spare analog channels on the data logger?

[TriumphV8]

I think that is not possible. The SIGMA people possibly

make it that slim to keep it cheap. I would have liked a

12 Volt connection and better illumination .......

[jean]

300hp.. only the crankshaft will be around 8k pounds...when I compare it to the 4cyl racing shafts I have seen... 2.8 ltr engine, bore off center and not much cylinder wall left... impossible to drive in town.

Power is nice, but price increases in square to HP..

Must say the fastest TRs I have seen on the track were those with the best suspension settings. As they say " You don't need a lot of HP if you don't have to brake all the time "

[Dave McDonald]

I have never heard of 300bhp out of one of these engines. Typically 240/250bhp is realistic, with circa 220lbs ft.

 

300bhp sounds excessive to me.

If only....!!

Dave McD

[jellison]

Only just found this thread, 2 years late.

 

Few points from y side, 300bhp, is utter dreamland. As mark says 240-250bhp (at the crack on a modern set of rollers) is about as good as it gets for a full house TR "race" engine, usually 2.6 or 2.7. Making it 2.8 will add no more than a few bhp.

 

The top builders of these things have been saying these are the real numbers (240ish maybe 245) for a very long time.

 

On the Exhaust discussion, the full tubi setups like the Racetoration's one (obviously not made by them thought), really do show big gains over a Phoenix type system. I found this out from experience racing a full house lump built back in 07 for a year or two but just using the Phoenix system that had been on it as a road car / roadsports racers. When we had a one off (like the Racetorations one) built by Zero, the change was incredible). Only a few more bhp a the top end but the torque gains we huge in the mid-range, I am taking 45-50 ft/ilbs. The car was so much better to drive, basically feeling like it had a bigger engine (as extra torque will do) and did not have to have the balls ragged off it to get the same from it.

[Tom Fremont]

Hi Graham,

 

I have the same manifold as your current one and am happy with a 150 cam and triple DCOEs.

 

My other engine with 0.502" lift and 292 degrees duration would never come to heel in the mid range no matter what I did with the Webers ( same manifold ). I finally fitted the GOODPARTS manifold with equal length primaries and secondaries. Mid range torque filled in nicely, and the Webers had to be recalibrated to recover the top end the equivalent of (3) sizes smaller on the main jet! Big difference in behavior between these manifolds.

 

Cheers,

Tom

[Rem18]

Hi Andreas

 

When I originally did all this work the car was running standard 150 PI set up wit the exception that the metering unit was set up to run 10% richer than normal, like I said in previous post this was before many TR specialist had access to rolling roads so tweaking the MU in tis way was the best that (I) could do.

 

The car also currently has an unusual exhaust manifold it has single runners with collect 1-3 and 4-6 into 2 near the stater motor as per the other Racestorations manifold but where these would normally be then fed into a 2-1 to give a single pipe I have a further 2 pipes which run along the gearbox and then they finally join to a single pipe at the back of the G.box

 

The manifold is old and causing clearance issues with the stater motor hence my thinking of replacing it

ATB Graham

Graham interested to hear what you felt were the real benefits of a 10% richer MU?

Tony

[Rem18]

Hi All.

I'm having my engine rebuilt at the moment by Frank Anderson race engines, he's worked with race engines all he's life and has some impressive wins on track.

He says even spending lots and lots of money on Manifolds you are still only to gain a few BHP, if this is to be a full race speck engine then it's worth it if it's for road use then you're better spending the money elsewhere.

Just out of interest the best he got from a Triumph 6 cylinder was just under 300 BHP :-)

Mark

So let's hear the elsewhere list then ????

[Andy Moltu]

Hi Andreas

 

When I originally did all this work the car was running standard 150 PI set up wit the exception that the metering unit was set up to run 10% richer than normal, like I said in previous post this was before many TR specialist had access to rolling roads so tweaking the MU in tis way was the best that (I) could do.

 

The car also currently has an unusual exhaust manifold it has single runners with collect 1-3 and 4-6 into 2 near the stater motor as per the other Racestorations manifold but where these would normally be then fed into a 2-1 to give a single pipe I have a further 2 pipes which run along the gearbox and then they finally join to a single pipe at the back of the G.box

 

The manifold is old and causing clearance issues with the stater motor hence my thinking of replacing it

ATB Graham

 

Do you mean 10% richer or the maximum fuel settings increased but 10%?