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Front brake pad knock off kit


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Hi can any one help regarding the kits that supports the inner and outer front wheel bearings so as to help with the flexing of the stub axils. Do they work?

 

I notice that the prices say from Revington £74.96 and the TRGB kit £39.95 are a bit confusing regarding the differancs for the the kit. Can any one who has fitted this type of kit give me any advice.

 

Dennis

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I suffered with a long brake pedal for years.I tried the kit from Revington and yes it worked.I personally think it is a engineered bodge albeit a good one.I changed it all out and fitted the bigger stub axle,bigger bearings and alloy hubs that most now sell.My other TR5 has standard new components and have never suffered axle flex.I found it is the way you set up the bearings for clearance that is the most important part in the first place.

Don't know if that helps but it works for me.

Regards Harry.

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The kits themselves do not strengthen the stub axle and the "flexing" is something that gets blamed when the issue is excess play in the front wheel bearings. The kits effectively allow you to tighten the bearing to a measured end float so that the bearing is done up accurately without loading the bearing excessively.

 

Before buying either kit I would suggest that you check that the wheel bearings are tight enough - most people tend to back off the nut on the stub axle too far and ending up leaving too much end float which in turn causes the pads to knock back when manoeuvring.

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Dennis, I fitted this kit about 10 years ago, never had a problem. My kit came from Bastuck in Germany, but it's just a simple spacer with shims. You have to shim out the spacer, can be time consuming and instead of the block release procedure you apply a torque to the nut.

After having driven the car for a few hundred miles you will have to check for play and eventually shim it out again.

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Dear Alec

How long do you think it takes to fit the TRE kit? I participated in a rally at the weekend and on a number of occasions had a long pedal after a really rough bit of road or hard cornering.I will take a look at the bearings but suspect a kit would help.A long pedal at 100mph at Dunsfold is something I would rather not repeat.

Best Regards Tom

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Hi Tom,

I can understand the mechanics of the kit - the bigger diameter sleeve should help the original stub axle.

However I can;t get my head around the stub axle bending enough to give any degree of pad knock-back.

If the wheel bearings are adjusted correctly there would be only a few thou' of play if that - barely noticeable at the tyre outer edge.

This very small amount of play would have little if any effect on the pads.

 

There was a recent thread about the felt seal being too big/thick. If the wrong thickness of seal is used then it tries to become structural and keep the bearing from seating correctly.

 

I have a cunning plan!!!

Fit the hub 'without' the felt seal and see where the castleated nut ends up. mark this position to the nearest split pin hole.

Refit the seal and tighten the castleated nut to the above position.

I'm sure you will note that any play in the wheel has now gone - but not forever.

The bearing will be in the correct position and the felt seal will be tight - eventually the felt will give/compress to a normal situation.

 

If you don;t know where the correct position for the nut is then the felt will fool you and become a structural component - felt isn't good for this.

 

Roger

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Thanks all for your input. My adjustment on my 5 is with no movement when rocking the wheel and the only time I suffered knock back is when turning on full lock at slow speeds.

 

I fitted the Toyoto twin pot calipers some 9 years ago and have only experience knock off after that upgrade. The improvement in braking is well worth the £220 price of the recondition calipers from my motor factors. But you do change the factory balance front to rear making it more supseptabile to locking up the fronts, this can be overcome by fitting the bigger wheel cylinders to the rear so as to rebalance the front to rear ratio. A fellow Devon group member drove my 5 recently and could not believe how much it improves you braking.

 

Thanks again regarding you comments, I now have food for thought.

 

Dennis

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Dennis Vessey was first to address the knock-off issue properly in the mid-90s, using bearing spacers that only suited cetain stub axle profiles.

I then finessed this concept into a "fits-all" kit, copied, without acknowledgement, by the aforementioned tuners.

My 6-cylinder crank SuperDamper kit was copied similarly, again missing the nuance that allowed it to function properly out of the box.

Imitation & flattery; nah, stuff your sincerity!

Just sayin...????

Edited by Stanpartmanpartwolf
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Nick is right. in my opinion.

While MG used the spacers Triumph saved that money

for the disadvantage that the rotating bearing(s) eat(s) the stub axle.

That is the most common problem for play in the wheel today.

So when swapping to spacer very often the stub axle must be changed, too.

 

By the way: Often mixed up is a much easier force to press the pedal

with the capability to get the car down quickly from the speed. For the last we

need a perfect brake power balance between front and rear and because

we have a dynamical load moving it differs from wet to dry ground. From that

we cannot apply the max power distribution that is best for dry to the car because

the rear would lock on wet. This compromise must be found best because we do not

have that nice knobs on the steering wheel that formula 1 has. It is a great

improvement to optimize for the given street grip but has also the great disadvantage

that done wrong you may loose the car. Just this weekend it happened to Carlos Sainz..

 

What people claim today is too much pedal force to lock the brakes.

This bad effect rises with hotter cams in use.

First remedy is to use a vaccuum pump either at the alternator or as an electrical pump.

They are widely availiable from diesel cars.

The other remedy is to use a brake booster from a Volvo with two diaphragms.

 

The benefit of both offered solutions is that we do not interfear in the brake

balance the Triumph engineers established for us.

 

Also when fitting bigger wheel cylinders the travel way of the pedal rises

what we do not like. This is also avoided by my solutions.

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Good points Andreas.

 

Mick Richards.

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Fitted to TR3A....to overcome pad knock back.

Residual pressure valve - holds pressure in the hyraulic lines.

My experience is that the thing can cause the pads to 'drag'.

I think Lockheed had the RPV inside the master cyl on some of its designs - looked like a small rubber witches hat.

 

Cheers

Peter W

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Seems to be a good idea to spoil the brake pads

and give away some pretty horses!

 

Whenever a friction plate is pushed a little bit closer to its partner

it does what it is designed for: Friction, also when not needed!

 

That is surely the wrong way as there are solutions to avoid

that problem without such an awful thing in the brake!

 

If somebody is keen on really short travelling way of pedal:

1.) remove the play in the bearings and so on in the hub

2.) get the disc itself perfect match to left and right

3.) set the rear brake properly and center the drums

4.) get the setup of of pin between brake booster to master cylinder perfect

5.) remove any play in the pedalwork

6.) get a bigger master cylinder in combination with a double diaphragm booster

 

(where the last point can not be recommended to everybody because its a deep, deep

operation into the brake system that needs some skill but on the other hand helps the most)

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I guess these fixes are ok if you are a Monopod, for us Bipods there are no long travel pedal situations.

 

Mick Richards

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Errr no, it aint not needed, it is needed,

{ Im no too sure, but I think all the Dual MCs on Ts had em in as standard.}

 

And if your no aware of it go have a look into your moderns brakes,

then go tell the manufacturer that they not needed., every modern has em fitted,

just folk no no aboot em,.

 

They dont drag the brakes when in use,

Butt, if brakes are applied when sitting in yer garage, then they will drag a wee bit, untill wheels have turned.

 

Best mod i ever did with the useless brakes as OE fitment MC

nd, brake bleeding becomes so so simples,

just pump the pedal, nee need to close the bleed nipple after each pump

 

Prob is wid a modern, there so much free play in the brake dept, that it will not be noticed.

if there is a RPV fitted, as all servoed cars have a lousy brake pedal.

bung one of thee,s on, and the pedal is solid frae the first 1/8th inch travel.

 

they a win win thing

 

M

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RPVs are useless on TRs.

It's worth a study of Reliant's problems with the PAS Scimitars that used adapted TR5/6 front suspension, with a pile of extra castor angle.

The knock-off must have been horrendous; their remedy was to increase stub axle & hub strength, adding a larger outer wheel bearing, all to little effect. We tried those on the race cars 20y ago.

 

AKO spacers completely transform any TR or Scimitar front end, even with 12" discs.

 

And so to the next cause of your bad pedal: the rear end. Obviously cylinder size can be a factor, but drum wear & poorly finished shoes are the culprits.

 

Brand new drums with properly radius-ground shoes will restore a soggy pedal to rock-hard.

I could go on, but won't. Good luck!

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Hi can any one help regarding the kits that supports the inner and outer front wheel bearings so as to help with the flexing of the stub axils. Do they work?

 

I notice that the prices say from Revington £74.96 and the TRGB kit £39.95 are a bit confusing regarding the differancs for the the kit. Can any one who has fitted this type of kit give me any advice.

 

Dennis

Just looked at the specialist TRGB's web sales site and they shew the anti knock back kit in the photo but give it the part no of the OE Stub Axle (115763) - so what do you get?

Buyer beware

https://www.trgb.co.uk/parts/item/355/115763/tr2-6-front-stub-axle

 

Peter W

 

PS I have sent them a query on the product

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Stanman, is that because TRs use the same stub an bearings as a wee spitty!!

 

can say frae my own trials an tribulations that a GT never suffered them probs you on aboot.

as GT stub an bearings much stouter.

 

My own use of a PRV was browt aboot by 4 pots upfront and rear calipers wid a 35mm pistionee.

the PRV sorted every thing oot that a bigger MC did,nt

and also got a better pedal too wid a smaller MC and PRV.

 

M

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