Dennis Devon Group Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hi can any one help regarding the kits that supports the inner and outer front wheel bearings so as to help with the flexing of the stub axils. Do they work? I notice that the prices say from Revington £74.96 and the TRGB kit £39.95 are a bit confusing regarding the differancs for the the kit. Can any one who has fitted this type of kit give me any advice. Dennis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytr5 Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 I suffered with a long brake pedal for years.I tried the kit from Revington and yes it worked.I personally think it is a engineered bodge albeit a good one.I changed it all out and fitted the bigger stub axle,bigger bearings and alloy hubs that most now sell.My other TR5 has standard new components and have never suffered axle flex.I found it is the way you set up the bearings for clearance that is the most important part in the first place. Don't know if that helps but it works for me. Regards Harry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 The kits themselves do not strengthen the stub axle and the "flexing" is something that gets blamed when the issue is excess play in the front wheel bearings. The kits effectively allow you to tighten the bearing to a measured end float so that the bearing is done up accurately without loading the bearing excessively. Before buying either kit I would suggest that you check that the wheel bearings are tight enough - most people tend to back off the nut on the stub axle too far and ending up leaving too much end float which in turn causes the pads to knock back when manoeuvring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Dennis, I fitted this kit about 10 years ago, never had a problem. My kit came from Bastuck in Germany, but it's just a simple spacer with shims. You have to shim out the spacer, can be time consuming and instead of the block release procedure you apply a torque to the nut. After having driven the car for a few hundred miles you will have to check for play and eventually shim it out again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Bourne Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 I have the TR Enterprises kit - works a treat and good value. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 I've helped fit both the Revington and the TRE kits in the past, and in this instance the TRE kit would be my preference by a considerable margin . . . . . both kits work, but the TRE kit seemed a lot easier for an unskilled amateur to fit. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomfpurves Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Dear Alec How long do you think it takes to fit the TRE kit? I participated in a rally at the weekend and on a number of occasions had a long pedal after a really rough bit of road or hard cornering.I will take a look at the bearings but suspect a kit would help.A long pedal at 100mph at Dunsfold is something I would rather not repeat. Best Regards Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hi Tom, I can understand the mechanics of the kit - the bigger diameter sleeve should help the original stub axle. However I can;t get my head around the stub axle bending enough to give any degree of pad knock-back. If the wheel bearings are adjusted correctly there would be only a few thou' of play if that - barely noticeable at the tyre outer edge. This very small amount of play would have little if any effect on the pads. There was a recent thread about the felt seal being too big/thick. If the wrong thickness of seal is used then it tries to become structural and keep the bearing from seating correctly. I have a cunning plan!!! Fit the hub 'without' the felt seal and see where the castleated nut ends up. mark this position to the nearest split pin hole. Refit the seal and tighten the castleated nut to the above position. I'm sure you will note that any play in the wheel has now gone - but not forever. The bearing will be in the correct position and the felt seal will be tight - eventually the felt will give/compress to a normal situation. If you don;t know where the correct position for the nut is then the felt will fool you and become a structural component - felt isn't good for this. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomfpurves Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Thanks Roger I am going to have Glen at Protek fit the TRE kit and will let you know how it is in due course. Best Regards Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dennis Devon Group Posted October 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Thanks all for your input. My adjustment on my 5 is with no movement when rocking the wheel and the only time I suffered knock back is when turning on full lock at slow speeds. I fitted the Toyoto twin pot calipers some 9 years ago and have only experience knock off after that upgrade. The improvement in braking is well worth the £220 price of the recondition calipers from my motor factors. But you do change the factory balance front to rear making it more supseptabile to locking up the fronts, this can be overcome by fitting the bigger wheel cylinders to the rear so as to rebalance the front to rear ratio. A fellow Devon group member drove my 5 recently and could not believe how much it improves you braking. Thanks again regarding you comments, I now have food for thought. Dennis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 You may find this thread on the Club Triumph forum of interest. The spacer kits are similar to the TR Enterprises ones. IMO the "engineering bodge" is running the bearings without the spacer tubes. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stanpartmanpartwolf Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) Dennis Vessey was first to address the knock-off issue properly in the mid-90s, using bearing spacers that only suited cetain stub axle profiles. I then finessed this concept into a "fits-all" kit, copied, without acknowledgement, by the aforementioned tuners. My 6-cylinder crank SuperDamper kit was copied similarly, again missing the nuance that allowed it to function properly out of the box. Imitation & flattery; nah, stuff your sincerity! Just sayin...???? Edited October 12, 2015 by Stanpartmanpartwolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TriumphV8 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Nick is right. in my opinion. While MG used the spacers Triumph saved that money for the disadvantage that the rotating bearing(s) eat(s) the stub axle. That is the most common problem for play in the wheel today. So when swapping to spacer very often the stub axle must be changed, too. By the way: Often mixed up is a much easier force to press the pedal with the capability to get the car down quickly from the speed. For the last we need a perfect brake power balance between front and rear and because we have a dynamical load moving it differs from wet to dry ground. From that we cannot apply the max power distribution that is best for dry to the car because the rear would lock on wet. This compromise must be found best because we do not have that nice knobs on the steering wheel that formula 1 has. It is a great improvement to optimize for the given street grip but has also the great disadvantage that done wrong you may loose the car. Just this weekend it happened to Carlos Sainz.. What people claim today is too much pedal force to lock the brakes. This bad effect rises with hotter cams in use. First remedy is to use a vaccuum pump either at the alternator or as an electrical pump. They are widely availiable from diesel cars. The other remedy is to use a brake booster from a Volvo with two diaphragms. The benefit of both offered solutions is that we do not interfear in the brake balance the Triumph engineers established for us. Also when fitting bigger wheel cylinders the travel way of the pedal rises what we do not like. This is also avoided by my solutions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Good points Andreas. Mick Richards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GT6M Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 How do ye no its the fronts, could be the rears too. fit a RPV, and all yer troubles are gone M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Hi Marcus, what is a RPV, what does it do? and why? Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Fitted to TR3A....to overcome pad knock back. Residual pressure valve - holds pressure in the hyraulic lines. My experience is that the thing can cause the pads to 'drag'. I think Lockheed had the RPV inside the master cyl on some of its designs - looked like a small rubber witches hat. Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytr5 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Hi Roger, Residual pressure valve. This keeps a designed pressure in the brake lines and from memory I think 2 LB at the front and 10LB at the rear to (overcome the shoe springs) I have them on Jas but not on Rooster. Regards Harry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Thanks for that chaps. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TriumphV8 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Seems to be a good idea to spoil the brake pads and give away some pretty horses! Whenever a friction plate is pushed a little bit closer to its partner it does what it is designed for: Friction, also when not needed! That is surely the wrong way as there are solutions to avoid that problem without such an awful thing in the brake! If somebody is keen on really short travelling way of pedal: 1.) remove the play in the bearings and so on in the hub 2.) get the disc itself perfect match to left and right 3.) set the rear brake properly and center the drums 4.) get the setup of of pin between brake booster to master cylinder perfect 5.) remove any play in the pedalwork 6.) get a bigger master cylinder in combination with a double diaphragm booster (where the last point can not be recommended to everybody because its a deep, deep operation into the brake system that needs some skill but on the other hand helps the most) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I guess these fixes are ok if you are a Monopod, for us Bipods there are no long travel pedal situations. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GT6M Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Errr no, it aint not needed, it is needed, { Im no too sure, but I think all the Dual MCs on Ts had em in as standard.} And if your no aware of it go have a look into your moderns brakes, then go tell the manufacturer that they not needed., every modern has em fitted, just folk no no aboot em,. They dont drag the brakes when in use, Butt, if brakes are applied when sitting in yer garage, then they will drag a wee bit, untill wheels have turned. Best mod i ever did with the useless brakes as OE fitment MC nd, brake bleeding becomes so so simples, just pump the pedal, nee need to close the bleed nipple after each pump Prob is wid a modern, there so much free play in the brake dept, that it will not be noticed. if there is a RPV fitted, as all servoed cars have a lousy brake pedal. bung one of thee,s on, and the pedal is solid frae the first 1/8th inch travel. they a win win thing M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stanpartmanpartwolf Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 RPVs are useless on TRs. It's worth a study of Reliant's problems with the PAS Scimitars that used adapted TR5/6 front suspension, with a pile of extra castor angle. The knock-off must have been horrendous; their remedy was to increase stub axle & hub strength, adding a larger outer wheel bearing, all to little effect. We tried those on the race cars 20y ago. AKO spacers completely transform any TR or Scimitar front end, even with 12" discs. And so to the next cause of your bad pedal: the rear end. Obviously cylinder size can be a factor, but drum wear & poorly finished shoes are the culprits. Brand new drums with properly radius-ground shoes will restore a soggy pedal to rock-hard. I could go on, but won't. Good luck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Hi can any one help regarding the kits that supports the inner and outer front wheel bearings so as to help with the flexing of the stub axils. Do they work? I notice that the prices say from Revington £74.96 and the TRGB kit £39.95 are a bit confusing regarding the differancs for the the kit. Can any one who has fitted this type of kit give me any advice. Dennis Just looked at the specialist TRGB's web sales site and they shew the anti knock back kit in the photo but give it the part no of the OE Stub Axle (115763) - so what do you get? Buyer beware https://www.trgb.co.uk/parts/item/355/115763/tr2-6-front-stub-axle Peter W PS I have sent them a query on the product Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GT6M Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Stanman, is that because TRs use the same stub an bearings as a wee spitty!! can say frae my own trials an tribulations that a GT never suffered them probs you on aboot. as GT stub an bearings much stouter. My own use of a PRV was browt aboot by 4 pots upfront and rear calipers wid a 35mm pistionee. the PRV sorted every thing oot that a bigger MC did,nt and also got a better pedal too wid a smaller MC and PRV. M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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